Macy's to SJTC?

[JeffreyS]

And let's not mention that for people in cities with former iconic department stores, lots of people actually have some degree of spite for Macy's for taking away all the great stores like Wanamaker's and MArshall Field.

I know the Marshall Field mourning is still active in Chicago. For me as a visitor though that is one fantastic Macy's.

[KenFSU]

Macy's suck, but perception is everything. Lots of people I've encountered in the south still think Macy's is emblematic of "bright lights, big city", ergo, "they think Jacksonville should have one"...it's basically the north's version of a Belk.

Yeah, I have only been here since 2006, but even as a transplant, it's quite clear Macy's has always been Jacksonville's white whale, retail wise. The magical yet elusive big city department store that will solve all of our problems and legitimize Jacksonville as a top tier American city. Regardless of quality, might as well get Macy's out of the way, throw up a quick Trader Joe's, and then turn our full focus toward becoming a genuine IKEA city.

[I-10east]

Yeah, I just want a Macy's here so people would quit whining about it more than anything; Other than that, I could really care less if one comes here. It will most likely be like the one in G-ville anyway, big-whoopty-do. I never judge off of perception; It's a nice way to often be disappointed, or pleasantly surprised depending on if it's a good (overrated) perception, or bad (underrated) one. 

[Seraphs]

Ten years ago the arrival of Macy's may have been a somewhat bigger deal, however, now not.  Back in the olden days Ivey's at Regency was matched only by the Colonial Plaza store in Orlando.  Most of the time the Regency store was out front.  I think had Macy's come into the Jax market in the nineties they would've done excellent.  Now people are looking beyond their brand.  Who cares?

[thelakelander]

My guess is if they opened in Jax, they'd pull in their draw of shoppers.  Despite the mergers over the years, people simply like more retail diversity at their disposal.

[Jaxson]

I don't really know much about Macy's beyond my experience at their Herald Square store in New York City, but I have noticed that Macy's is attempting to build a national brand with its commercials featuring various celebrities and/or celebutantes.  I think that the saturation of the airwaves (or other waves on television) with their brand serves to create an impression for me that Jacksonville is somehow missing out on something.  Not that we are really missing anything, but it is odd that we are likely the largest U.S. city without a Macy's.  Overrated or not, Macy's is an American institution that continues to elude us.  Of course, we can always shop on Macys.com using the wonderful Macy's gift cards that are available at our finest, local retailers. 

[Ocklawaha]

you kind of have to wonder if all of these places are going to start cannibalizing each other eventually.

We can only hope!

[I-10east]

^^^Would you have the same take if those businesses were downtown? What am I thinking, of course not...

[spuwho]

Macy's is still swallowing all of those M&A actions.

simms is right however, there are "good" Macy's and then there are the suburban mall, middle market Macy's that are suboptimal. I was always baffled how Ocala had a Macy's but not Jacksonville.

Macy's is still learning that what is fashionable on the aisle's of Fashion Row in NYC doesn't necessarily carry in Peoria. This makes their ability to integrate their product lines nationally really tough and make the economies of purchasing harder to reach. Niche mall stores like Wet Seal, American Eagle etc. have simple products and can price the same in San Jose, CA as they do at Seminole Mall.

I weep for Marshall Fields because they had product lines that fit their market well. I still have my Marshall Fields - HSM tailored suit. Of course they had Frango chocolates & mints. Former owner Target moved Frango operations to some nameless warehouse in Philly. Macy's brought it back to the downtown store and reopened the bakery tours. Yes, it is correct, Chicagoans are still mad that Marshall Fields is no more even though they keep throwing out peace pipes. (I also miss Carson, Pirie & Scott, Lord & Taylor). The Carson's flagship store on State Street is now a flagship Target. Who knew?

The west coast lost Frederick & Nelson (a former Marshall Fields division), Bon Marche and some others. When I lived in Seattle, I could call up my Bon Marche concierge and get everything from travel arrangements to car batteries. It was really customer focused.

Where Macy's fails, there will be others to take their place. Von Maur is rising in the midwest. Nordstrom coming from the west. Belk in the south.

If Macy's does come, I do hope they bring the A game to town regardless of where they land.

[thelakelander]

Macy's is still swallowing all of those M&A actions.

simms is right however, there are "good" Macy's and then there are the suburban mall, middle market Macy's that are suboptimal. I was always baffled how Ocala had a Macy's but not Jacksonville.

Easy.  Outside of South Florida, it's the same reason the rest of Florida has them.  Central and South Florida mainstays, Maas Brothers and Burdines basically expanded all over the state (except Jacksonville) over a process of 50 years before a process of mergers ended up with them being rebranded as Macy's. They were Tampa's and Miami's version of what May-Cohen's and Furchgott's were to Jacksonville.  The dominance of those old Jacksonville chains on this market and May's decision to spin off Cohens to Maison Blanche are the main reasons their aren't multiple Macy's in Jax now.  The rest of May's chains eventually became Macy's.

Interesting enough, excluding Daytona Beach, May-Cohen's never expanded to other Florida cities where Maas Brothers and Burdines were located.

If Macy's does come, I do hope they bring the A game to town regardless of where they land.

The majority of stores were acquired chains and simply rebranded.  I assume if they decide to build something new in Jax, it will be above what the Maas Brother (now Macy's) is in a place like Ocala or Gainesville.

[simms3]

If Macy's does come, I do hope they bring the A game to town regardless of where they land.

Their A game would be to match Dillards in brand quality and cleanliness, and size, and to offer a large home section, as well as to carry some of their better in-house brands such as Alfani and Tasso Elba.  The best and largest Macy's in the south is the former Rich's flagship at Lenox, which is now 433,308 SF.  As a former frequent shopper there - it is just a much larger higher end Dillards (a la SJTC).

Only a few Macy's carry some higher end brands that aren't at a Dillards or a high end Belk, and they still aren't as nice on the inside as a big Nordstrom or Bloomingdale's (certainly not a NM, Saks, Barneys, or BG).  Their attractions remain their large home sections, the restaurants inside of them (the largest Macy's are 500,000-2.2 million SF, I pop into Tout Patisserie all the time at Union Square), the large events they put on, and their tourist-centric locations and potentially historically significant nostalgia.

All of the other cities that also have Dillards and Belk also have Macy's, for a variety of reasons.  It IS odd that Macy's isn't anywhere in Jax, and it IS odd that Burdines never even attempted to give the local stores a run for their money.

[thelakelander]

As I recall, Burdines didn't really extend far outside of South/Central Florida until their parent company was acquired by Allied, which owned the Tampa-based Maas Brothers/Jordan Marsh in 1991.  At the time, Maas Brothers/Jordon Marsh happened to be the larger chain with several stores more stores throughout the state.  They all ended up being rebranded Burdines, until the parent company ended up rebranding all of its acquired regional stores across the country with the Macy's name. 

Jax simply never ended up with Macy's because it's local chains (Cohens/Furchgotts/Levy-Wolf) were not a part of companies like Federated and Allied.  Since those days, it's not like department stores have been rapidly expanding.  If anything, the numbers have been dropping nationwide.  We probably won't see a Macy's here until the get a deal at one or more of the better shopping malls they prefer.

Abe and Isaac Maas started their retail career in Cochran, Georgia, working with their brothers, Jacob and Sol. By 1880, Abe was operating a store in Dublin, Georgia, and Isaac was operating a millinery store in Ocala by 1885. In 1886, Abe decided to move to a better location and chose Tampa, at the time a small village on Florida's west coast. Abe had been quoted[by whom?] as saying, "It's a waterfront town. Who knows? It may amount to something someday." Abe Maas opened the Dry Goods Palace on December 10, 1886. His brother, Isaac, formally joined his brother on September 15, 1887, and the store became Maas Brothers. After outgrowing its first two locations, Maas Brothers opened its third, and largest, store in 1921. By 1929, Maas Brothers dominated Florida's West Coast. It was known as "Greater Tampa's Greatest Store."

In 1929, Abe and Isaac Maas sold Maas Brothers to Hahn Department Stores. Maas Brothers gained the buying power of the 28 department stores while Hahn gained the addition of another successful chain with a loyal customer base. In 1935, Hahn Department Stores changed its name to Allied Stores Corporation. Despite being owned by a national company, Maas Brothers was still operated by the Maas family. In 1935, Isaac Maas, who was serving as chairman of the board died at the age of 71. Abe Maas, who was president, became chairman. Jerome A. Waterman, Abe and Isaac's nephew, became president. Jerome joined Maas Brothers in 1907. Abe Maas died in 1941 at the age of 86.

In 1948, Maas Brothers opened its first full line branch store in downtown St. Petersburg. Other branch stores opened in downtown Lakeland in 1954, downtown Sarasota in 1956 and downtown Clearwater in 1961. Maas Brothers opened its first mall store, in 1965, in the Edison Mall. By 1981, Maas Brothers opened its 17th store in Gulf View Square Mall in Port Richey. This was the last Maas Brothers store built. In 1985, Maas Brothers absorbed the Savannah, Georgia based stores of fellow Allied nameplate Levy's of Savannah (founded in 1871 as B. H. Levy & Bro.).

In 1986, Maas Brothers celebrated its 100th anniversary. It was in the same year that Canadian real estate developer Robert Campeau completed his takeover of Allied Stores Corporation. As part of liquidation and cost cutting, Maas Brothers was consolidated with the weaker Jordan Marsh Florida franchise on Florida's East Coast in 1987 (Allied's Jordan Marsh had expanded from New England in 1956, later forming a separate Allied division). The plan was that the stronger Maas Brothers would help the weaker Jordan Marsh. This brought the total number of combined stores to 39 throughout Florida, Georgia and South Carolina. In 1989 the official store name was changed to Maas Brothers/Jordan Marsh.

In 1988, Campeau launched a successful takeover battle with Macy's for Federated Department Stores. Ironically, Federated would acquire Macy's in 1994. With the acquisition of Federated, Maas Brothers' formal rival, Miami-based Burdines, became its sister store. As with the Allied acquisition, in order to cut costs, several back office operations for Maas Brothers, Jordan Marsh, and Burdines were consolidated.

By 1989, Federated and Allied were struggling to make its debt payments incurred from the takeovers. On January 16, 1990, Federated and Allied filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Several underperforming stores were closed, including the flagship downtown Tampa store in February 1991. As part of its plan of reorganization, the Florida operations would be consolidated and several stores would be closed. The Maas Brothers/Jordan Marsh headquarters was closed and consolidated with Burdines in July 1991. On October 20, 1991, the Maas Brothers stores officially became Burdines. The majority of the former Jordan Marsh stores were sold off since they competed directly with Burdines. Burdines, along with the other Federated divisions except Bloomingdales, were converted to Macy's in 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maas_Brothers

All in all, I don't find it odd that Burdines never expanded to Jax.  Their "expansion" came as a result of their parent company getting acquired by another company that decided to change all of their existing Florida stores to the popular Burdines brand.  Before that happened, we were still in a time where regional brands like Cohens dominated their particular home cities.

[thelakelander]

Our Cohen's stores were acquired by St. Louis-based May Department Stores in 1958.  May also owned popular regional chains like Hecht, Famous-Barr, Lord & Taylor, Foley's, Strawbridge's, and Kaufmann's.  May ended up acquiring Marshall Field's in 2005 being purchased by Federated for $11 billion in 2005.  All May divisions were then rebranded by Federated into Macy's. 

Jax's May-Cohens happened to be May's smaller regional division with only six stores in the Jax region and Daytona Beach.  May sold their Cohens brand to Louisiana-based Maison-Blanche in 1988.  If May would have never sold Cohens, the Belk stores at Regency, Avenues, Orange Park and Roosevelt would be Macy's.  Same stuff, different name.

[jaxjags]

I ran into a Macy's corporate guy in Savannah about a year ago. He said they had been doing siting work and he was on the team. The issue they were having is that they do not want to open a single store in JAX( more a logistics thing). Other than  the SJTC they were having difficulties finding a suitable second site. The early ides included the second Ben Carter property at World Golf Village, but that got canned during this last reccession. Also, we constantly hear they do national advertising so we can see ads in JAX. Well about Christmas time I heard a Macy's ad on a LOCAL broadcast radio station. I guess they wanted you to go to their internet site or maybe it was for Daytona/Gainesville?

[Ocklawaha]

^^^Would you have the same take if those businesses were downtown? What am I thinking, of course not...

While it would be nice to see retail life injected into downtown, I couldn't care less if we 'got' some NY big name store or another Wal-Mart, it's all crap, it's all made in China, and it all wears out or breaks down, and they all pay their employees starvation wages and treat them like cattle... SO WHAT? A new pair of unblemished Levi's from a flea-market is just as good as the exact same pair from some store with a name that sounds like your pronouncing it with a mouth full of paper.

Do you know where 'Bugger Holler,' is I-10east? I do.