Why Does Jax Continue to Deal with Turner Construction?

[I-10east]

The half-ass work that Turner Construction did throughout this city is apparent; The Arena, the Duval County Courthouse, and I'm probably leaving some others out.....And now the latest Everbank Field?

www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/money_makers/2013/05/turner-construction-to-do-4m.html

I don't think that I'm being unreasonable here. Why does Jax continue to remain persistent in dealing with these people? Are they the only construction company in the world? Get ready for some follow up repairs to Everbank Field about a year later....SMH.

[Cheshire Cat]

The half-ass work that Turner Construction did throughout this city is apparent; The Main Library, The Arena, the Duval County Courthouse, and I'm probably leaving some others out.....And now the latest Everbank Field?

www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/money_makers/2013/05/turner-construction-to-do-4m.html

I don't think that I'm being unreasonable here. Why does Jax continue to remain persistent in dealing with these people? Are they the only construction company in the world? Get ready for some follow up repairs to Everbank Field about a year later....SMH.

This happens because of inside relationships at City Hall that direct information about jobs to certain entities, work to see that they get it and then later defend the awful job that is done.  If you want to understand the courthouse, take a look at who was subcontracted via Turner.  You can start with Gate Co. doing the concrete work.  Follow?

[I-10east]

^^^Was the concrete substandard concerning the Courthouse? Gate can't be any worst than Pittman & Sons (Berkman 2 disaster) or can they? That still doesn't let Turner off the hook though. That's the reason why the city is trying to recoup (VIA lawsuit) alot of money from the leaking Main Library. Yet they want them to do Everbank Field; Talk about sleeping with the enemy. Whatever 'buddy buddy deal' at City Hall with these companies seems like a detriment to the city.

[urbaknight]

It's like I said on another thread, All of the decision makers are all friends with each other.

[Cheshire Cat]

^^^Was the concrete substandard concerning the Courthouse? Gate can't be any worst than Pittman & Sons (Berkman 2 disaster) or can they? That still doesn't let Turner off the hook though. That's the reason why the city is trying to recoup (VIA lawsuit) alot of money from the leaking Main Library. Yet they want them to do Everbank Field; Talk about sleeping with the enemy. Whatever 'buddy buddy deal' at City Hall with these companies seems like a detriment to the city.

Actually it was substandard I-10.  There were problems with the prefab stability as well as other issues.

[duvaldude08]

Yeah that the citys doing. We need to stop dealing with Turner. Luckily they are not building the stadium or Id be worried. LOL!! I think Im OK with them doing the renovations. But I agree, we need to stop using them.

[Cheshire Cat]

If you remember Turner also got into trouble repeatedly for hiring illegal workers during a time and place where our own local contractors were hurting for work.  It was lousy all the way around. IMO

[carpnter]

The half-ass work that Turner Construction did throughout this city is apparent; The Main Library, The Arena, the Duval County Courthouse, and I'm probably leaving some others out.....And now the latest Everbank Field?

www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/money_makers/2013/05/turner-construction-to-do-4m.html

I don't think that I'm being unreasonable here. Why does Jax continue to remain persistent in dealing with these people? Are they the only construction company in the world? Get ready for some follow up repairs to Everbank Field about a year later....SMH.

Just one correction, Turner did not build the library, that was a joint venture between Elkins, Auchter, Lodestar, and  The Parris Co.   

[I-10east]

^^^My bad, thanks for the info.

[urbaknight]

I saw on the news last night, that the Jags are paying for the renovations. It worries me that Kahn would hire these idiots. Is he in danger of becoming a good ol boy? Jacksonville has a way of doing that to most people who move here.

[carpnter]

If you remember Turner also got into trouble repeatedly for hiring illegal workers during a time and place where our own local contractors were hurting for work.  It was lousy all the way around. IMO

Those illegal workers worked for subcontractors not Turner.  While you do have a valid point about Turner not using local subs, claiming the workers were on Turner's payroll is not accurate. 

I too would have preferred seeing more local contractors get work on the project. 

[Cheshire Cat]

If you remember Turner also got into trouble repeatedly for hiring illegal workers during a time and place where our own local contractors were hurting for work.  It was lousy all the way around. IMO

Those illegal workers worked for subcontractors not Turner.  While you do have a valid point about Turner not using local subs, claiming the workers were on Turner's payroll is not accurate. 

I too would have preferred seeing more local contractors get work on the project. 

I understand your point, but Turner was the entity responsible for choosing those subcontractors.

Right out of college and for several years my 1st husband and I co-owned and operated two sizable contracting businesses that took on huge projects like shopping centers, apartment complexes and the like. When we hired sub contractors for our jobs, they darn well knew we expected them to do quality work and that their business practices were to be ethical and lawful.  When the initial reports of illegal workers hired by subs was made Turner should have taken action with those subs as well as monitor their subsequent hiring practices to make sure they behaved lawfully.  As it turns out those subs repeatedly violated the law by using illegals. Any Turner representative or project manager could have easily seen and monitored who was working on the courthouse job.  Turner was ultimately responsible for hiring companies to work on the project and in that way those companies were an extension of Turner on this job site.  It looks to me that Turner did not cover themselves regarding their subs business practices with contracts that spelled out they could void their contract if they failed to deliver on time or used illegal workers.  Still is on Turner in my view.

[tufsu1]

I saw on the news last night, that the Jags are paying for the renovations. It worries me that Kahn would hire these idiots. Is he in danger of becoming a good ol boy? Jacksonville has a way of doing that to most people who move here.

apparently the folks in Orlando have also decided to hire Turner for their staium renovations...and the compnay recently built the new Amway arena there

[carpnter]

If you remember Turner also got into trouble repeatedly for hiring illegal workers during a time and place where our own local contractors were hurting for work.  It was lousy all the way around. IMO

Those illegal workers worked for subcontractors not Turner.  While you do have a valid point about Turner not using local subs, claiming the workers were on Turner's payroll is not accurate. 

I too would have preferred seeing more local contractors get work on the project. 

I understand your point, but Turner was the entity responsible for choosing those subcontractors.

Right out of college and for several years my 1st husband and I co-owned and operated two sizable contracting businesses that took on huge projects like shopping centers, apartment complexes and the like. When we hired sub contractors for our jobs, they darn well knew we expected them to do quality work and that their business practices were to be ethical and lawful.  When the initial reports of illegal workers hired by subs was made Turner should have taken action with those subs as well as monitor their subsequent hiring practices to make sure they behaved lawfully.  As it turns out those subs repeatedly violated the law by using illegals. Any Turner representative or project manager could have easily seen and monitored who was working on the courthouse job.  Turner was ultimately responsible for hiring companies to work on the project and in that way those companies were an extension of Turner on this job site.  It looks to me that Turner did not cover themselves regarding their subs business practices with contracts that spelled out they could void their contract if they failed to deliver on time or used illegal workers.  Still is on Turner in my view.

Sure Turner could have voided the contracts, put the project even further behind schedule and incurred a financial loss getting a new contractor on the project to replace the old one.  Most times it is better to use a problem sub and monitor them more closely than it is to replace them and then litigate to recover any losses or fight the contractor who thinks he is entitled to more money for the work completed. 
I've had problems with subcontractors on projects that had done excellent work for me on previous projects and I had to evaluate replacing them or dealing with the problems and just providing extra supervision to make sure they get the job done correctly and on time.  I've also had to supplement contractors who were not performing.

[Cheshire Cat]

^ I hear you.  lol  What really blows my mind is that the city also hired Sam Mousa to oversee this courthouse and deal with Turner, how we ended up with a building that could not open due to a malfunctioning fire sprinkler system and front doors that do not meet code is way beyond me.  I think Sam made a cool six figures for his involvement.  Bottom line is that some folks will let things slide and go a bit weak on due diligence if they think there will be little to no push back when things are not going as they should.  The city got taken to the cleaners on this deal for a structure projected to last 50 years and it was all of us taxpayers who will be paying for that mess as it starts to deteriorate.  Kinda like the Main Library, which of course was another contractor who clearly did not deliver quality work.