Time for JTA Skyway to Brooklyn?

[jcjohnpaint]

like

[Cheshire Cat]

Stephendare, LOL ROFLMAO

Rynjny, streetcar has a significant advantage over the Skyway running NORTH from the stadium to Gateway. private-(city owned)-right-of-way extends from the back of the Maxwell House Plant all the way to Gateway. It would make a fantastic lineal Parkway, with streetcar, bike, and pedestrian trail running side by side OFF STREET. Add this to the streetcar from the area of Beaver and AP Randolph to Park and King in Riverside and we'd have a pretty amazing start on a massive infill generator.

Cheshire Cat, we currently have a story in the pipeline on another WIN-WIN angle on bringing the Skyway to Brooklyn and mixing that with a fantastic historic preservation move. I will be speaking with Mr. Ford and the Mayor's office next week on this and a couple of other projects.

Well Bob, this is exciting news! 

[Timkin]

Stephendare, LOL ROFLMAO

Rynjny, streetcar has a significant advantage over the Skyway running NORTH from the stadium to Gateway. private-(city owned)-right-of-way extends from the back of the Maxwell House Plant all the way to Gateway. It would make a fantastic lineal Parkway, with streetcar, bike, and pedestrian trail running side by side OFF STREET. Add this to the streetcar from the area of Beaver and AP Randolph to Park and King in Riverside and we'd have a pretty amazing start on a massive infill generator.

Cheshire Cat, we currently have a story in the pipeline on another WIN-WIN angle on bringing the Skyway to Brooklyn and mixing that with a fantastic historic preservation move. I will be speaking with Mr. Ford and the Mayor's office next week on this and a couple of other projects.

  *crosses fingers

[HangingMoth]

It seems that the logical progression of Jacksonville mass transit would be a well connected core of Skyway stations and a core that connects outer neighborhoods by street car. If street cars could bring people to the edge of the core and skyway connects all points of the core, what more could you want...

[ProjectMaximus]

With my limited understanding of the transit systems, I think the Skyway's best extension will be further into San Marco after the East San Marco project is completed. Streetcars will serve the stadium and Riverside just fine.

[dougskiles]

With my limited understanding of the transit systems, I think the Skyway's best extension will be further into San Marco after the East San Marco project is completed. Streetcars will serve the stadium and Riverside just fine.

Agree!

Interesting that none of the suggestions being thrown out by anyone include the only system that JTA is currently designing ... BRT.

[thelakelander]

BRT is and has always been JTA's baby that the community has been reluctant to sell.  Part of the problem is that in the past, it has been promoted as a more cost effective and better alternative to other forms of fixed transit.  Another problem is that most of the system has been designed along routes that parallel rail corridors and Skyway corridors.

With that said, BRT isn't a bad thing.  There is a place for BRT-lite style service in Jacksonville. At its core, it would help if it could be promoted for what it really is.......reliable and understandable frequent bus service that most expect out of cities Jax's size. It's not rail and it doesn't significantly stimulate TOD on its own. It does no one any good to sell it as such a thing. IMO, it's just something that needs to be coordinated and implemented with other transit initiatives that have greater economic development opportunities and higher abilities to attract choice riders.

[jcjohnpaint]

Well about a month ago, I used the Culver BRT from LAX to Culver City.  I did not feel that the BRT was much different than just having a typical city bus.  Every person that got on got in a fight with the driver over the fair.  Some guy tried to bring a 50" flat screen on board and fought with the driver for 10 mins before we could depart again.  I feel we should just call it what it is:  another city bus. 

[paulirwin]

I think they should extended it to the sports complex first.

It would likely draw less ridership, serve less residents and spur less economic development while costing twice as much.

I respectfully disagree. Not because of the sports complex -- you would certainly see bursts of ridership from time to time but nothing consistent at that stop. The real benefit of taking the skyway to the sports complex, however, is the crucial service of Bay street beyond Hogan.

This "stub" at Bay and Hogan is where they could extend it down Bay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jacksonville_Skyway_stub.jpg

It looks to me like there could be room for a stop at Bay & Ocean (serving busy places like CoWork Jax, Hyatt Regency, the Florida Theatre, public offices, and the nightlife/restaurants there). That would be the biggest benefit of an expansion down Bay, continuing on from there to the sports complex. Maybe only run the sports complex extension from Bay & Ocean every 15 minutes during weekday business hours, but every 5-7 minutes during weekends or weeknight events.

But, to your other points, BRT could work equally as well down that corridor. It would just be frustrating to riders to have to switch transit modes to get from Riverside to the sports complex as an example by going Streetcar then Skyway then BRT, further alienating the skyway.

[thelakelander]

Well about a month ago, I used the Culver BRT from LAX to Culver City.  I did not feel that the BRT was much different than just having a typical city bus.  Every person that got on got in a fight with the driver over the fair.  Some guy tried to bring a 50" flat screen on board and fought with the driver for 10 mins before we could depart again.  I feel we should just call it what it is:  another city bus. 

Lol.  Two years ago, while in LA, I transferred from LRT to the Silver Line BRT to get from LAX to downtown LA.  The Silver Line was a bus painted Silver than ran in freeway HOV lanes with limited stops along the way.  It was fine to me but yes, it was just another bus.  Although, there was no presence of TOD along the route, I was most impressed that it had been implemented seemingly without major federal assistance. I wonder why we can't do the same by modifying our system utilizing existing buses?

[thelakelander]

I think they should extended it to the sports complex first.

It would likely draw less ridership, serve less residents and spur less economic development while costing twice as much.

I respectfully disagree. Not because of the sports complex -- you would certainly see bursts of ridership from time to time but nothing consistent at that stop. The real benefit of taking the skyway to the sports complex, however, is the crucial service of Bay street beyond Hogan.

This "stub" at Bay and Hogan is where they could extend it down Bay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jacksonville_Skyway_stub.jpg

It looks to me like there could be room for a stop at Bay & Ocean (serving busy places like CoWork Jax, Hyatt Regency, the Florida Theatre, public offices, and the nightlife/restaurants there). That would be the biggest benefit of an expansion down Bay, continuing on from there to the sports complex. Maybe only run the sports complex extension from Bay & Ocean every 15 minutes during weekday business hours, but every 5-7 minutes during weekends or weeknight events.

But, to your other points, BRT could work equally as well down that corridor. It would just be frustrating to riders to have to switch transit modes to get from Riverside to the sports complex as an example by going Streetcar then Skyway then BRT, further alienating the skyway.

Do you disagree on costs?  I say this because regardless of what's along the route, the Skyway will cost at least double or triple  as much to extend.  In terms of ridership, I'd be willing to counter argue that a streetcar line connecting Park & King to DT's Bay Street would directly tie in a larger and more diverse pool of destinations.  Off the top of my head, Park & King, St. Vincents, Five Points, Memorial Park, Cummer, BCBS, Fidelity, 200 Riverside, Riverside Place, Haskell, Everbank, etc. would all be connected into the Skyway, with direct service to the Landing, Hyatt and Florida Theatre.  You would also position yourself for an easy extension up Newnan Street into Springfield and the Cathedral District.

[jaxlore]

I still think putting in a "no frills stop at the O&M center" has to be done at the very least. Especially with all the Brooklyn tie in right now. I still think all city and state officials should be forced to use mass transit in Jacksonville at least several times a week as part of there job requirements. If they did we would see a different system pretty quickly.

[thelakelander]

^Definitely agree.  Even if it's as simple as an at-grade platform and bus shelters.

[Tacachale]

^Yeah that should be a no-brainer even if they never expand it further down that way.

As for Bay Street, while I don't think the sports complex should be the first expansion, there's certainly something to the idea that people won't want to switch modes every few miles or blocks. And I've always thought that access to the sports complex should be crucial to our downtown mass transit.

[paulirwin]

Do you disagree on costs?  I say this because regardless of what's along the route, the Skyway will cost at least double or triple  as much to extend.  In terms of ridership, I'd be willing to counter argue that a streetcar line connecting Park & King to DT's Bay Street would directly tie in a larger and more diverse pool of destinations.  Off the top of my head, Park & King, St. Vincents, Five Points, Memorial Park, Cummer, BCBS, Fidelity, 200 Riverside, Riverside Place, Haskell, Everbank, etc. would all be connected into the Skyway, with direct service to the Landing, Hyatt and Florida Theatre.  You would also position yourself for an easy extension up Newnan Street into Springfield and the Cathedral District.

I definitely acknowledge a cost to any Skyway expansion (or any mass transit expansion/installation), but we (as a city) should have financially committed to an expansion to east downtown back in 1989. Of course hindsight is 20/20, and most of what we're talking about on this thread is assuming that we can actually get improvements (which include real costs associated with them) passed through our local leadership.

My point, I suppose, was that if you ask anyone why they don't ride the skyway, they call it the "monorail to nowhere". Why? Because the San Marco stops are not walkable, the Prime Osborne is defunct, and it doesn't service east downtown. The only reason why it was popular during One Spark was due to free parking at Prime Osborne and that the Hemming Plaza stop was right in front of the main area. To make the Skyway worthwhile at all, we have to invest in an expansion. I love the Skyway, and I want to see it succeed in creating a vibrant, walkable downtown -- and leaving it as it is will not help it succeed one bit.

A Bay & Ocean stop seems like a great first step, with a commitment plan in place to expand to the sports complex. It would be great for bringing more people downtown during any games or concerts, while helping east-downtown businesses along the way.