Why doesn't Jacksonville host spring training?

[coredumped]

Why doesn't Jacksonville hold any spring training games? The Baseball Grounds is a great stadium, and weather isn't that much colder than Brevard, we're close to the same longitude as Baton Rouge (which hosted just a few years ago.)
For comparison, Space Coast Stadium in Brevard only seats 8,100, the Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville holds 11,000 (the highest capacity in all of Double-A baseball). And while Space Coast Stadium is nice, it's no match for the Baseball Grounds. If you haven't been it's really a great stadium.

Historically, Jacksonville hosted some spring training back from 1912-1922 at JP Smalls.

Anyone think there's a possibility we'd host again?

^{Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_spring_training_ballparks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Grounds_of_Jacksonville
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Coast_Stadium}

[KenFSU]

Actually goes back further than that. Jacksonville was the first Florida city to host spring training, way back in 1888 with the Washington Senators 1889 with the Phillies. The Athletics were here in 1903, the Reds in 1905, the Braves in 1906, the Dodgers from 1907-1909, etc. before spring training became what it is now.

I know the city has made efforts within the last five years or so to land an end-of-spring-training series between a couple of MLB teams, but my best guess as to why we don't host a team full time is that Jacksonville is just a little bit too far north, weather and logistic wise, relative the other Florida teams.

Would LOVE to see it happen, however.

[KenFSU]

P.S. Fun side story:

Baseball players (and Northerners) had such a terrible reputation in the late 1800s that when the Senators got to Jacksonville, there wasn't a single hotel willing to put them up. It was probably warranted, as the team stumbled out of their Pullmans at the train station so intoxicated that they could barely stand. They had to stay outside of the city, two-to-a-bed, at a ridiculous premium ($1 per player per day), with the understanding that they were strictly forbidden from interacting with other hotel guests. Probably not a wise idea, as players destroyed their rooms, broke all the furniture, and got into numerous fights with other patrons. The Senators weren't invited back, nor were the Cubs, who were turned away when they wanted to spring train here in 1890.

[Tacachale]

Jax was actually a hub for minor league spring training into the 50s. It died out here along with independent minor league training (they still train, just usually along with their MLB affiliate).

The comparatively colder weather is often cited as a factor in the lack of training, but the bigger issue is distance from the other sites. The teams like to cluster together so they can travel to play quickly and affordably. As such, they're all currently located in central and southern Florida, particularly in the Tampa Bay and Southwest areas. It also helps that these areas have a lot of retirees and snowbirds from the Midwest and Northeast where many of the MLB teams are from.

It's long been recognized that no one team is going to want to play so far away from the others, however it's possible we could swing it if we could attract multiple teams to the area. In the 1990s there were talks to build complexes in both Jax and in St. Johns County which would hold two teams each, and then a minor league team each during the regular season. It didn't come together; but ultimately we built the Baseball Grounds which is a wonderful stadium.

Here's a good piece about the project from the late great Bill Foley:

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/073097/allFoley.html

Will we ever see spring training here again? Who knows, but I like to think so.

[fsquid]

I was about to say that they wouldn't use the baseball grounds most likely anyways.  These spring training facilities have multiple fields since the minor leaguers also train and play games there.  Also, most of these places are home to the short season A ball teams in July-Sept after the MLB draft.

[JeffreyS]

Because the teams to try to be grouped together as close as possible to make the bus rides as short as possible.

[coredumped]

I know the city has made efforts within the last five years or so to land an end-of-spring-training series between a couple of MLB teams, but my best guess as to why we don't host a team full time is that Jacksonville is just a little bit too far north, weather and logistic wise, relative the other Florida teams.

Man, I wish we would host them here. I don't know how much economic impact it would be (probably not much at all) but I know quite a few people who head to central florida this time of year to see the games down there.

[thelakelander]

Coming from Central Florida, many cities have come to the conclusion that the economic impact isn't worth the amount of public funds needed to sustain spring training in their communities.  My hometown got rid of the Cleveland Indians in favor of flipping the land for private infill development.  Up the street, at Baseball City, the Kansas City Royals were bounced in favor or a shopping center at I-4 & US 27. Plant City has also moved on in another direction after the Cincinnati Reds left in the late 1990s.  When the Reds were there, they still were operating +$300k in the red annually. Since then, that city has sold the stadium to a private group.

[Tacachale]

Coming from Central Florida, many cities have come to the conclusion that the economic impact isn't worth the amount of public funds needed to sustain spring training in their communities.  My hometown got rid of the Cleveland Indians in favor of flipping the land for private infill development.  Up the street, at Baseball City, the Kansas City Royals were bounced in favor or a shopping center at I-4 & US 27. Plant City has also moved on in another direction after the Cincinnati Reds left in the late 1990s.  When the Reds were there, they still were operating +$300k in the red annually. Since then, that city has sold the stadium to a private group.

Lakelander, Lakeland still has the Detroit Tigers training facility, which I know because of my insane Tigers fan father in law who makes many trips up to see them from Punta Gorda. If I recall, the Indians were in Winter Haven and they "got rid" of that town more than the town "got rid" of them. And "Baseball City" was a rather famous disaster from the get go. However, it's certainly the case that the ostensibly more successful facilities, both in terms of revenue and quality of life, are the ones that host minor league baseball during the rest of the year - Lakeland does that, Winter Haven did not.

In Jax, we already have the stadium, we'd just be getting it some more use if we landed spring training. However, we'd still have to build the practice fields and overcome the formidable logistics I mentioned (ie, probably having to get 4 teams to move to the area).

[thelakelander]

Yes, Lakeland still has the Tigers.  They been coming into town quite close to 80 years now.  Joker Marchant Stadium wasn't too far from my house when I lived there before moving to Jax.  They are getting ready to invest another $50 million or so into that ballpark.  The last stadium upgrade was around 2001 or so. They anticipate the Tigers bring $45 million to Florida annually via Spring Training and minor leagues. We have a family friend from Orange Park who still occasionally drives down to visit my parents and watch a few games.

In the case of the Indians and Winter Haven, I was in 10th grade at Winter Haven High School when the Indians replaced the Red Sox. They only came in 1993 because Hurricane Andrew had destroyed their plans to relocate to Homestead.  They wanted the city to invest in a new stadium but there had always been a local debate on whether such an investment was the best use of city dollars.

Even dating back to the Red Sox, there was a big debate over whether it was worth it or not to subsidize spring training. Outside of Morrison's Cafeteria at the Winter Haven Mall and an adjacent Holiday Inn, it was difficult to quantify the amount of economic benefit being generated specifically for Winter Haven, since Winter Haven's taxpayers were going to have to fund it.  In the end, the Winter Haven never did and the Indians found a community that gave them what they wanted. 

Since then, the city hasn't looked back, benefiting economically from the addition of Legoland Florida, landing a new CSX hub as a result of the Orlando/Sunrail deal and the state funding the new university at I-4 & the Polk Parkway.  There's also been a larger focus on revitalizing its core, investing in parks and multi-use paths throughout the city. In the end, it's hard to say they made a wrong decision by not giving the Indians the new stadium they had always wanted and instead investing their public funds on other quality-of-life initiatives.

Bringing Jax into the mix, Spring Training would probably never work here for the same side reasons the Indians, Red Sox and Winter Haven eventually parted ways.  In the early days, several Central Florida cities had teams Spring Training in the area. By the time the Indians moved to Arizona, outside of the Tigers, it was a good drive to reach other teams.  In Arizona, they were within 30 minutes of 12 teams or so.

[Tacachale]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't say WH made the wrong decision in letting the Indians go. That's a lot of opportunity cost to go into baseball. Additionally, in their case any facility would never have the impact it could, since it's unlikely they'd ever get a minor league team for the regular season with one up the road in Lakeland and Orlando always toying with the idea.

I doubt Jax would ever swing one single team for the reason of distance. I do think it could work if we brought multiple teams in the area, along the lines of the '90's proposals. Of course it's a tall order as it requires St. Johns (or some other nearby county) to commit to a totally new facility, but for Duval it's really just a matter of building some practice fields for 2 teams near or accessible to the Baseball Grounds. Leaving aside the logistical leaps, two teams playing downtown in February and March could be a big impact for relatively little expense beyond what we already have.

[coredumped]

Would JU (capacity 1,500) and UNF (capacity 1,000) and J. P. Small Memorial Stadium/Durkee Field (capacity unknown) be too small?

[thelakelander]

Yes. Winter Haven's outdated facility has a capacity of 7,000. Joker Marchant Stadium in Lakeland has a capacity of 8,000 and the Yankees stadium in Tampa holds 11,000.

[coredumped]

Lol, okay, so not even close

[thelakelander]

The capacity of the Baseball Grounds would work.  The distance between Jax and the rest of the Florida cities with Spring Training teams won't.