Marijuana Legalization May Be Unstoppable

[If_I_Loved_you]

“We don't seem to be able to check crime, so why not legalize it and then tax it out of business”

Will Rogers quote

That's about par for the course, Will Rogers was a Democrat!

(Will Rogers was a Democrat!) I never knew that thanks. 

[ronchamblin]

Quote from Oklawaha:

"Jellyfish have no brain, no heart and no central nervous system, yet they hunt and are very much alive. Plants are in the same situation, and we know they 'feel' pain."

Without researching the jellyfish, I “think” it does have some nerves; sensory and motor nerves which allow it to sense environmental conditions and other animals, and then to contact or wrap around prey.  The difference however between the jellyfish and the higher animals is that they engage their immediate environment “reflexively”; their system reacts by reflex to the environment.  Yes, they are alive to some degree, but lack consciousness as we know it, and therefore lack the ability to suffer as we know it. 

Plants however, while alive, do not have nerves, and therefore do not feel pain.  They probably react physically to environmental stimuli or to environmental extremes.  Pain implies a highly developed central nervous system, and at least a low grade consciousness. 

BTW Ock, I bought, from a seller in Tampa, a large collection of books on Trolleys, Streetcares, Subways, Trains, .... all kinds of rail stuff.... small magazine size stuff to the larger hardcover books.  I've recently placed  a few on the shelves at the Laura Street store, and will get to the other boxes (about six or seven total) during the next few weeks.  You might take a look occasionally to see if there is something you like. 

[buckethead]

“We don't seem to be able to check crime, so why not legalize it and then tax it out of business”

Will Rogers quote

That's about par for the course, Will Rogers was a Democrat!

(Will Rogers was a Democrat!) I never knew that thanks. 

Will Rogers had some great quotes. This one is not among those. Taxation, regulation, legislation... all form a similar function as it pertains to human behavior.

Consequences do influence behavior... to a degree. At the point where the taxation makes a black market highly profitable, it serves exactly like the previous regulation in that hooch, for instance, is making millionaires from thugs.

[Ocklawaha]

Ron research shows that plants do react to what we'd call pain, fire, cuts, etc. and do it immediately, not sure how the Jellyfish react but I think that is key to my point, we really don't know. Research seems to point to hard and fast scientific rules, but along comes a cacti or 'fish' that's 96% water, and the 'facts' all fly out the window. All we really know for certain is that we don't know. LOL.

As for the books, if we're talking old manual type streetcar or interurban books, I'm your huckleberry. I've been meaning to get by and pick up a couple of long out of print historical volumes that I saw last time I was by. I also wanted to show you a few that you have that ought to be locked up in your cases and your price could be increased as they are legendary collectables. I'll also sign any of my books you have in stock.

[ronchamblin]

Thanks Ock.  Interurban !!!! That's the other word I was trying to think of.   And things like BRT and LRT..etc  And the prices are from $10.00 and up to over $100 for the larger books (being on our database for warehouse keeping for online salses), some being perhaps 30 pages or so.  I must check too, as some of yours might be in the collection.

[ronchamblin]

NotNow, I’m suggesting that the attributes of common sense and rational thinking can be found in greater percentages in the liberal or less religious populations, and less in the conservative or more religious populations, as the former are less likely to believe in angels, fairies, gods, unicorns, prayer, and immortality, while the latter is more likely to. 

I love the “Pro-Life” bumper stickers.  That means the rest of us are “Pro-Death”.  Rational?   

But…. “My justification for abortion?”  How best to say it.  Ending a biological process before it produces an unwanted and unnecessary human life.  Ending a biological process before it produces a condition wherein suffering can exist.  Preventing the existence of an unwanted and unnecessary human life before it emerges from an unintended biological process.  Population control.  We really need to get our population down to about 250 million or so.  If we don’t, it might drop to zero by itself.  The animals need the earth back in any case.  They are much better caretakers.

But of course, the question, which has I’m sure been argued over and over, concerns the exact time of the achievement of life, which occurs surely at some point between the sperm and egg union and the birth of the living child. 

We know without a doubt that a human life emerges at some point within this period of time.  Does a human life exist one minute after conception?  Does it exist one minute before birth? 

Besides the idea of life, the idea of suffering is an important issue.  An animal can suffer only within life.  Can suffering exist one minute after conception?  Surely not.  Can suffering exist one minute before birth?  Surely.

Give the problem to an irrational religious person, and the answer is simple.  The kind of thinking which stems from their ability to believe in gods and angels, and that the words in a book written many centuries ago was inspired by a god, is the same kind of thinking which will allow them to hang bumper stickers such as “Pro-Life”, and persecute and kill abortion doctors because they believe that life, and therefore suffering, begins at conception.

Suffering is an ability which emerges from the central nervous system, which has a brain within.  It is impossible to be substantially alive, and therefore able to suffer, if no central nervous system exists.  From the beginning, from conception to the birth of the child, the central nervous system develops.

What is the central nervous system’s condition or development at one minute after conception?  What is its condition at one week?  At three weeks?  At eight months?  At birth?   Surely the early days and weeks will not find a central nervous system of adequate development which would allow suffering, or that consciousness has developed to the degree that suffering can occur. 

Surely an abortion can be safely performed one minute after conception, after one day, after one week, after three weeks, and up to two months; and the process would cause absolutely no suffering, simply because no central nervous system will have developed sufficiently to allow the suffering process.

And some, arguing against sensible abortions, as encouraged by their almost insane religious convictions, want to bring more human lives into the world to endure real suffering.  Just look around at the real suffering which irrational man has forced upon so many of their fellow men, women, and children.  The fighting, killing, maiming, torturing, the ignoring of the needs of others -- much of it caused by ridiculous religious beliefs – which has occurred as long as man has existed, and still exists today in our “informed” and “educated” world, is the cause of degrees of suffering almost impossible to imagine.  And compare this suffering to the arguments which the ridiculous religious arrive at during their church gatherings concerning sensible people’s efforts to avoid bringing more unwanted individuals into the world so that they will not have to endure real suffering too.

Look at the real suffering, as individuals endure the cancers and illnesses which cause suffering for months or even years as they suffer before death.  Real and terrible suffering is all around us.  Ending the biological process which would lead eventually to a life, and doing so at a very early stage in the process, is not causing anything to suffer.       
 
"Contrary to popular belief, Chuck Norris was dropped at Hiroshima and Nagasaki."
                   

The idea that life begins with the ability to suffer... is a new one for me Ron.  Thanks for something to ponder this weekend! 

Actually BT, I didn’t mean to say that life begins with the ability to suffer.  There are all kinds of life, both plant life and animal life.  Some animals, such as the amoeba and the jelly fish, do not develop the ability to suffer because they do not develop a complex central nervous system, with a brain.  These simpler animals have an almost non-existent, low-grade consciousness, and therefore react reflexively with their environments. 

At some point between the conception and birth of a child, that period of nine months of growth, a gradual development occurs during which the central nervous system forms the ability to exhibit consciousness.  I suspect that the actual ability to experience consciousness, and therefore suffering, increases at a high rate during the last weeks of pregnancy.  After the birth, the high amount of stimuli increases the rate at which the child increases its level of consciousness.   

In my view, the more conscious an animal is, which is another way to saying -- the more intelligent an animal is, the more it can experience suffering.  Surely the ant cannot suffer, nor the jelly fish.  The ability of an animal to suffer, increases with the complexity of its central nervous system, and increases further as the animal achieves a higher level of consciousness.  Observations inform us that humans have the highest level of consciousness, and therefore can suffer the most. 

Whereas the chimpanzee and the dog can experience physical pain, and surely some emotional suffering, they cannot suffer the great emotional pain to the degree experienced by humans simply because they cannot achieve the high level of consciousness as experienced by the human.  One might suspect too, that the idiot cannot suffer as much as a very intelligent and sensitive human â€" and this, simply because the idiot cannot possess as much variety and depth of understanding within its consciousness as would be the case with the intelligent and sensitive individual.
   
"Chuck Norris owns and operates his own restaurant in Lubbock, Texas.  Knuckle sandwiches are the only thing on the menu."

[RockStar]

^^this argument powered by hippie stix.

[ronchamblin]

^^this argument powered by hippie stix.

??  Those who have little sense usually provide nonsense.


"Chuck Norris eats coal and shits diamonds."

[buckethead]

Nobody is more critical of smokers and smoking than a reformed smoker.

That's right Kids. Bucket=reformed doper.

I think smoking pot is childish and silly, except as it pertains to balancing behavioral problems and serving to ease pain and enhance appetite for cancer patients and others.

In fact, I might have been in some ways, a happier, less stressed version of myself back in my doper days. My problem had to do with complacency. (Not exactly the same thing as laziness, as I have always enjoyed being useful)

Well that is the doper side of it from my perspective. Not exactly a crack-head/meth-head/heroin junkie gutter story.

So this makes a little clearer why I support legalization of consumption, (dope use is fairly innocuous) but the larger issue is left untouched.

1 acre of HEMP (not even dope.... YOU DOPES!)=40 acres of trees in terms of annual yields for paper products.

That is just one use for the WEED. It frikkin grows anywhere, and easily. (Not high grade doper's weed, mind you.)

There are a myriad of uses for hemp fiber, hemp seed oil and other byproducts of the weed. I love typing the word weed. It just seems to come naturally to me...