Why is Jacksonville the way it is?

[Coolyfett]

A big part of it is that young people who might become change agents tire of navigating the "good ol' boy" network and dealing with a city full of largely apathetic citizens. These young people don't want to waste their youth hoping Jacksonville will get it together in time to enjoy it, so they leave and go someplace that already has what they're looking for. The people who stay are the ones who don't want anything but to pay lower taxes and to level the old parts of town.

I say "young people" but I just spoke to a woman last week who left Jax after retiring from a 30 year career because "there wasn't much going on."

Things like coming up with a grand new mobility plan and then declaring a moratorium on the funding mechanism for that plan don't help matters any. But it's that small town mentality that really does the city in. My dad was born and raised here and he says it's been that way for a long time (his dad was born and raised here, too).

Like I said, it all about "taking it easy" "be humble" type of culture. Anything too fancy and you will get noticed, you dont want to get noticed. The environment will force you to blend in again, humble yourself if you will. The Big Pockets of the city decide and that group of people is changing but only because they are dying out. Its a slow and steady type of place.

[Coolyfett]

I would love for someone to name the members of this so-called GOB network that is holding us back.

Holding Jax back from what exactly? Not being smart, just curious what exactly should Jacksonville be in your eyes.

[Cheshire Cat]

Coolyfelt:  Jacksonville is place where the powers that be like to "take it easy" The big pockets set the tone for any city. If one can not afford to set the tone, then they have to follow the tone, feel, vibe and culture of those with the big pockets. People that have the want MORE personality are a minority in Jacksonville that includes most of the members of this very site. Jacksonville will only progress to as far as the leadership will let it. Truth be told the leadership has no interesting in that fancy pants excitement you are interested in. Its a city about fishing, hunting, driving BIG trucks, naval bases, big town, dim lights. That is the overall culture of Jacksonville.

Actually, this statement does tie into what I was talking about regarding how Jacksonville views itself.  CF is hitting on the underlying vibe about why Jacksonville is the way it is in 2013 and it more than evidences the currently conflicted views of how Jacksonville sees itself.  But while this is the underlying sentiment to date we need to look further back onto our history to see where the imbalance in thinking and control began. 

Jacksonville is at it's heart a "Southern" city and I believe it always will be.  But remaining a city of the south does not have to translate to the type of mindset and interests associated with Jacksonville in the past but we have to understand our past first to even get why we are where we are in 2013.

If we look to the roots of Jacksonville we will see that our city began as a majority black community.  That Black community overtime developed into one with a police force, lawyers, businesses and was honestly quite viable. Later in time areas like the original LaVilla was hopping with folks dressed to the nines and living a rich culture of music, food and southern life, while downtown Jacksonville grew as a mostly white urban core. Looking further into our history we will see that overtime the once majority Black city became a rigidly segregated city that was at the epicenter of racial struggles of equality in the 1960's and earlier.  Jacksonville has never come to balance with regard to views on minorities and that hindered us and continues to hinder us. 

What could be called the "GOB" mentality found it's southern roots in Jacksonville following the war of the states which manifested in a manner that held one race (whites) and evangelical type religion at it's core. We are named after a racist southerner named Jackson.  There was a long held and inborn attitude of white superiority  and religion over all others.  That "GOB" mentality used intimidation, political and financial power to run roughshod over anything and everyone that did not fit their view of Jacksonville. 

In time of the saddest manifestations of the "GOB" mentality in local politics is that instead of working with the Black community, clever politicians used members of the black community to do their bidding.  The standard among the old white politicians was to state "I have my black!"  Which meant they had found someone of stature in the black community to do their bidding for a price, be it faux acceptance or financial benefit.  This tact was all so clever as on the surface it appeared that these old guys were inclusive of blacks when in fact the blacks they worked with worked for them, not the black community.

Over the decades Jacksonville has failed to embrace it's true roots and culture which is greatly mixed.  Instead some tried to erase or bury Jacksonville's rich history which is one that at it's heart must be recognized as multicultural and positive.  The destruction of LaVilla and other black communities show this painful truth in all it's glory.

I think that as a community we have to take a real look at much of our past in order to learn and grow a better future.

[cityimrov]

I'm seeing a familiar theme here about blaming the leadership and the GOB.  The problem with that is that nearly every other city which is doing better than Jacksonville has similar problems.  They all have GOB, they all have corruption issues, they all have city council issues, they all have powerful family interests in control of their city.  They are all doing better than Jacksonville.

Let's take the Sexual Orientation Bill that recently failed city council.  If that bill failed in San Francisco and the representative of the district who's population overwhelming supported the bill all of a sudden voted against that bill, what would you see happen next?  What would the population who lives there do?

A big part of it is that young people who might become change agents tire of navigating the "good ol' boy" network and dealing with a city full of largely apathetic citizens. These young people don't want to waste their youth hoping Jacksonville will get it together in time to enjoy it, so they leave and go someplace that already has what they're looking for. The people who stay are the ones who don't want anything but to pay lower taxes and to level the old parts of town.

I say "young people" but I just spoke to a woman last week who left Jax after retiring from a 30 year career because "there wasn't much going on."

Things like coming up with a grand new mobility plan and then declaring a moratorium on the funding mechanism for that plan don't help matters any. But it's that small town mentality that really does the city in. My dad was born and raised here and he says it's been that way for a long time (his dad was born and raised here, too).

There's also another story to think about.  The Black community.  A lot of them are so poor that they have no resources to leave the city.   They also had been oppressed from holding power by reasons you mentioned until recently.  Unfortunately, they are still new at this game so they are like a trump card for what happens next in Jacksonville.  They are also a good example of how community trumps leadership since they are the key reason why Alvin Brown is mayor. 

A community has vastly more strength than any leadership that is in charge. 

[Cheshire Cat]

I'm seeing a familiar theme here about blaming the leadership and the GOB.  The problem with that is that nearly every other city which is doing better than Jacksonville has similar problems.  They all have GOB, they all have corruption issues, they all have city council issues, they all have powerful family interests in control of their city.  They are all doing better than Jacksonville.

Let's take the Sexual Orientation Bill that recently failed city council.  If that bill failed in San Francisco and the representative of the district who's population overwhelming supported the bill all of a sudden voted against that bill, what would you see happen next?  What would the population who lives there do?

A big part of it is that young people who might become change agents tire of navigating the "good ol' boy" network and dealing with a city full of largely apathetic citizens. These young people don't want to waste their youth hoping Jacksonville will get it together in time to enjoy it, so they leave and go someplace that already has what they're looking for. The people who stay are the ones who don't want anything but to pay lower taxes and to level the old parts of town.

I say "young people" but I just spoke to a woman last week who left Jax after retiring from a 30 year career because "there wasn't much going on."

Things like coming up with a grand new mobility plan and then declaring a moratorium on the funding mechanism for that plan don't help matters any. But it's that small town mentality that really does the city in. My dad was born and raised here and he says it's been that way for a long time (his dad was born and raised here, too).

There's also another story to think about.  The Black community.  A lot of them are so poor that they have no resources to leave the city.   They also had been oppressed from holding power by reasons you mentioned until recently.  Unfortunately, they are still new at this game so they are like a trump card for what happens next in Jacksonville.  They are also a good example of how community trumps leadership since they are the key reason why Alvin Brown is mayor. 

I don't think this is about blaming the "GOB" system but rather about taking a realistic look at how the "GOB" has impacted our community in the past and today.  Understanding how certain powers and people influenced our city in the past and are still influencing it is paramount in plotting a better course for the future.

For instance, you mentioned the situation with the sexual orientation bill.  In Jacksonville where did the basis of fear and judgement against homosexuals come from?  The answer is "religious beliefs" that in our city (although may be true for many others) come from a religious doctrine (taught by whites and embraced later by blacks) that taught to be a homosexual was a sin.   If you extrapolate that further one could reasonably infer that intolerance that was once aimed at blacks and Jews in our past is currently is aimed at other minorities, in our case homosexuals and Muslims.  In Jacksonville our "GOB" system was set in motion by purely southern white men who reigned supreme for years here.  In recent years our "GOB" system has grown to include many southern blacks.  Two levels of one viewpoint that puts one group of folks above another. 

You mention the poor blacks.  How did Jacksonville blacks go from basically growing this community in the beginning to being impoverished by it later?  Again, you can find the answer in the original white southern mentality that held the greatest influence and as such impacted how our money was spent, who benefited and who did not. 

[cityimrov]

I'm seeing a familiar theme here about blaming the leadership and the GOB.  The problem with that is that nearly every other city which is doing better than Jacksonville has similar problems.  They all have GOB, they all have corruption issues, they all have city council issues, they all have powerful family interests in control of their city.  They are all doing better than Jacksonville.

Let's take the Sexual Orientation Bill that recently failed city council.  If that bill failed in San Francisco and the representative of the district who's population overwhelming supported the bill all of a sudden voted against that bill, what would you see happen next?  What would the population who lives there do?

A big part of it is that young people who might become change agents tire of navigating the "good ol' boy" network and dealing with a city full of largely apathetic citizens. These young people don't want to waste their youth hoping Jacksonville will get it together in time to enjoy it, so they leave and go someplace that already has what they're looking for. The people who stay are the ones who don't want anything but to pay lower taxes and to level the old parts of town.

I say "young people" but I just spoke to a woman last week who left Jax after retiring from a 30 year career because "there wasn't much going on."

Things like coming up with a grand new mobility plan and then declaring a moratorium on the funding mechanism for that plan don't help matters any. But it's that small town mentality that really does the city in. My dad was born and raised here and he says it's been that way for a long time (his dad was born and raised here, too).

There's also another story to think about.  The Black community.  A lot of them are so poor that they have no resources to leave the city.   They also had been oppressed from holding power by reasons you mentioned until recently.  Unfortunately, they are still new at this game so they are like a trump card for what happens next in Jacksonville.  They are also a good example of how community trumps leadership since they are the key reason why Alvin Brown is mayor. 

I don't think this is about blaming the "GOB" system but rather about taking a realistic look at how the "GOB" has impacted our community in the past and today.

I don't think that's right.  From the way I read this thread and other threads, it's the leadership and only the leadership that hold most the blame.  The community is powerless (which it's not)  to stop the leadership.  That's the sentiment I'm seeing here and other threads. 

The last few decades, Peyton is the one to blame for all the missteps the city faced.  This year, it's the city council. 

The last time I saw Avondale area rise up to fight something had something to do with a pizza place.  Those with money had some sway but the community had enough power to do something about it.  With that, "bye bye" old gas station and "hello" modern buildings in historic Avondale.

[Bativac]

When I mentioned the good ol' boy thing, I don't know if it exists or not. But I know from personal experience that the perception that it exists seems to be enough, along with all the things Jacksonville lacks, to convince people to leave town. If not the good ol' boy network, the the perception that the city is still segregated. Or that the city fails to maintain basic amenities one expects in a large city. Or the "move on to the next strip mall" mentality. Or the idea that city has no identity beyond a loose collection of strip malls and highways.

I'm not just making this stuff up - I have friends who are computer programmers, civil engineers, artists, etc. who gave Jax a few years and then left town. Young people (late 20s - early 30s) of varying ethnicities and backgrounds, all creative and smart, all skilled. Even my mom, who was born and raised here, left ten years ago for greener pastures. I'm still here because my wife and I were foolish enough to buy a house a few years ago, thinking downtown was on the verge of some kind of renaissance.

There's only so much any one of us can do to move things forward - buying an older home in the urban core, becoming a part of the local arts community, supporting businesses downtown, voting, talking to council members, etc - before we give up and move on. Yeah, that doesn't bode well for the city, but some of us are selfishly more concerned about experiencing things in life than we are about whether Jacksonville will ever get its act together.

Not that this is unique to Jacksonville - lots of cities are going thru the same thing.

[Cheshire Cat]

Cityimrov 

The city has the type of leadership that it will allow and that doesn't just apply to elected office.  When it comes to elected leadership our city reflects where we currently are as a result of our own personal history here in Jacksonville, our politics and religious views. Our leadership reflects choices about who we think or believe best represents us and whether or not we have the economics to impact local politics.  I think it is important to distinguish between looking at and focusing on the things and people that have influenced policy making and as a result impacted and continue to impact "why Jacksonville is the way it is", the question beginning this thread. Identifying causes is not tantamount to blame.  There is no single thing, person or group of people that are responsible for where we are now as a city.  It is rather the cumulative result of years upon years of embracing or being held hostage by basic past attitudes and beliefs about who has the power to make changes in our community.   Make no mistake about the fact that our city is where it is politically and developmentally as direct result of the years of control of white men in business and politics in a community that either felt helpless to change the status quo or were content with the way things were.  Only recently has that begun to change as the personal attitudes of citizens have shifted with regard to what they want for themselves and their city.

[strider]

There are and always have been only three basic reasons anyone runs for political office. 

1) They truely want to do something positive for their city, state, country.  Rare these days, I hate to believe, but there are still some. 

2) Ego.  They have a huge one and the power they get being the government feeds it best.  Lots, and lots of these.

3) Money. They have some and want much more.  And they know the easy way to get it.  Most seem to at least end up here.

If we are brutually honest, it takes a combination of all three to be a "good leader" in today's world.  They need to have the ego and want the power and the money that can come with it to even get elected and we need them to at least care about us a little.  Hopefully enough to do some good.  The few that are almost soley number 1 seldom even get elected.

Apply this to Jacksonville and is it any wonder we are where we are?  We have lots and lots of land area so we are ripe for the developers to make money doing what they do best, expand the sprawl. And what better way to keep the money coming but put a bit of it in the right pockets. Legally or illegally, it doens't matter, the result is the same.  A moritorium on the Mobility plan, the continuation of the demolition of historic houses, the abandonment of the urban core and the majority of it's residents, the poorer of those amoung us.  White, black or in between, rich, poor, educated or not, regardless of religion, it all applies equally to our city council, does it not?  And has though out history.

The key is to change the game.  To get young thinking, regardless of age,  and progressive  people in power.  And hope they stay that way long enough to make the needed changes.  And that is the real issue.  The people hurt most by some of our council people are also the first to stand in line to vote for them.  Very sad.

Hmmm.  I think I just said that the real problem with Jacksnville is us.

[Cheshire Cat]

There are and always have been only three basic reasons anyone runs for political office. 

1) They truely want to do something positive for their city, state, country.  Rare these days, I hate to believe, but there are still some. 

2) Ego.  They have a huge one and the power they get being the government feeds it best.  Lots, and lots of these.

3) Money. They have some and want much more.  And they know the easy way to get it.  Most seem to at least end up here.

If we are brutually honest, it takes a combination of all three to be a "good leader" in today's world.  They need to have the ego and want the power and the money that can come with it to even get elected and we need them to at least care about us a little.  Hopefully enough to do some good.  The few that are almost soley number 1 seldom even get elected.

Apply this to Jacksonville and is it any wonder we are where we are?  We have lots and lots of land area so we are ripe for the developers to make money doing what they do best, expand the sprawl. And what better way to keep the money coming but put a bit of it in the right pockets. Legally or illegally, it doens't matter, the result is the same.  A moritorium on the Mobility plan, the continuation of the demolition of historic houses, the abandonment of the urban core and the majority of it's residents, the poorer of those amoung us.  White, black or in between, rich, poor, educated or not, regardless of religion, it all applies equally to our city council, does it not?  And has though out history.

The key is to change the game.  To get young thinking, regardless of age,  and progressive  people in power.  And hope they stay that way long enough to make the needed changes.  And that is the real issue.  The people hurt most by some of our council people are also the first to stand in line to vote for them.  Very sad.

Hmmm.  I think I just said that the real problem with Jacksnville is us.

Taking your thoughts a step or two deeper if I may.  I would very much agree with you that some people run for office to do positive things for a community, in this case Jacksonville.  The problem as I see it is that what one person running for office may see as positive, another may see as abhorrent.  Let me use Don Redman as an example.  He won his first term in office and then ran unopposed for his second term.  He ran because he wanted to do something "positive".  The rub is that part of doing what is positive or good in Redman's view also equates to doing things according to his personal religious doctrine and beliefs which means things like homosexuals or Muslims are not to be embraced. Unfortunately, too many follow his thinking.  So where is the criterion for Jacksonville as to what is "positive' for Jacksonville? How would we define it? I really wish that folks would pay more attention to the JCCI studies that have gone to great lengths to uncover the views of citizens about what is positive for Jacksonville and how to achieve needed changes both mentally and materially. 

You are bang on about ego.  One generally has to have a fairly strong ego to imagine they can hold public office.  As it is with so much else in life, a strong ego can be used by a person to do good or bad.   But is it always the ego of the one running for office?  Let's use John Peyton as an example.  While I am sure he felt good about his own abilities, it was not his ego but rather his fathers that put him on the path to running for office, overtime he found his own "groove" in ego and today Jacksonville reflects the influence of the ego of a man behind a man.

Money and power go hand in hand when it comes to what is appealing to many folks who run for office.  Some quite frankly don't give a "whoopie cushions fart" about representing the people.  It is all about them, their lives and financial growth.  If they can do something good for the people in the process, that's okay.

I don't think it necessarily takes all three to be successful in a run for political office, but it certainly requires some of these characteristics.   It is not as simple as changing the game by getting younger thinking people or progressives, because as I mentioned earlier, what does young (positive) thinking equate to?  You may get different answers from different people.  The same goes for what is progressive.

Perhaps it requires coming to the realization that voters need to pay much more attention to who they elect into office.  Research their backgrounds and know them beyond what they claim they are.  Even more importantly is the realization that leadership also comes from the average citizens who step up and step out.  This is where a collective of thinking can come together and hopefully we are seeing that happening right now.  It takes discussion groups like JCCI and interested people like those here on the forum and a willingness to step into the political fray to make it clear to elected officials what is and is not acceptable to the citizens of Jacksonville.

[jcjohnpaint]

One more reason politicians become politicians-  Look no further than Pope John the 23rd.  Sponsored by the Medici family:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipope_John_XXIII

[jerry cornwell]

  Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

[Tacachale]

Here's my take on why Jacksonville is the way it is:

Jacksonville is a burgeoning brewing destination because we're blessed with so many innovative and knowledgeable business owners in the field and a local culture that enthusiastically supports them, facilitating enviable growth in the industry and five new production breweries in as many years.

Jacksonville is a logistics hub because of its terrific location and a local leadership tradition that works with, rather than against, the business community and state and federal authorities to improve our airport, seaport, military bases, and highways.

Jacksonville is home to the state's most dynamic and up-and-coming public university because forward-thinking leadership has decided to focus on excelling in the things it does best rather than imitating the system's status quo.

Jacksonville is home to the state's newest, and easily coolest, arts district because local entrepreneurs identified the obvious demand for such a space and invested in making it an explosive success.

Jacksonville has the largest municipal park system in the country because past leadership saw the opportunity and took advantage of the city government's expansive purview to purchase green land that can never be developed.

Jacksonville has the best beaches of any city in the Southeast due one one hand to divine providence, and on the other to its citizens and leaders recognizing it as grand public space open and accessible to everyone, rather than a backdrop for postcards or the balconies of highrise condos.

What's amazing is that Jacksonville has done all these things in spite of a crippling inferiority complex and the presence of many citizens who do nothing but tear the city down, literally or figuratively. Fortunately, there are an increasing number of people who like what they see and want more of it, and are willing to do what it takes to get it.

[jerry cornwell]

Here's my take on why Jacksonville is the way it is:

Jacksonville is a burgeoning brewing destination because we're blessed with so many innovative and knowledgeable business owners in the field and a local culture that enthusiastically supports them, facilitating enviable growth in the industry and five new production breweries in as many years.

Jacksonville is a logistics hub because of its terrific location and a local leadership tradition that works with, rather than against, the business community and state and federal authorities to improve our airport, seaport, military bases, and highways.

Jacksonville is home to the state's most dynamic and up-and-coming public university because forward-thinking leadership has decided to focus on excelling in the things it does best rather than imitating the system's status quo.

Jacksonville is home to the state's newest, and easily coolest, arts district because local entrepreneurs identified the obvious demand for such a space and invested in making it an explosive success.

Jacksonville has the largest municipal park system in the country because past leadership saw the opportunity and took advantage of the city government's expansive purview to purchase green land that can never be developed.

Jacksonville has the best beaches of any city in the Southeast due one one hand to divine providence, and on the other to its citizens and leaders recognizing it as grand public space open and accessible to everyone, rather than a backdrop for postcards or the balconies of highrise condos.

What's amazing is that Jacksonville has done all these things in spite of a crippling inferiority complex and the presence of many citizens who do nothing but tear the city down, literally or figuratively. Fortunately, there are an increasing number of people who like what they see and want more of it, and are willing to do what it takes to get it.

Hear! Hear!
(A) Bold, New City of the South (?)

[coredumped]

Let's take the Sexual Orientation Bill that recently failed city council.

That's a good example. Why wasn't there outcry in our city? And why did city council NOT like the bill? Do you (not directly you cityimrov, anyone) think that city council are malicious? Or do you think they really feel they're doing what's best for the city?