Professional Soccer Returning to Jacksonville?

[blizz01]

Something (league/venue) similar to where the Charleston Battery play could suffice - this looks in line with JU's proposed stadium as well.

[Tacachale]

I'd like to see the city build a soccer-specific (or soccer focused) stadium in the urban core. Such a thing could be used not only for 2nd-level pro soccer, but also be remarked for things like football, lacrosse, and rugby. I could see it being used for marquee high school and club games in all those sports. Perhaps we could bring back those high school football rivalry games that used to be played at the Gator Bowl, as is done with baseball at the Baseball Grounds. However it's unlikely it would ever be used by JU or UNF for any sports.

Speaking of which, pro soccer could alternately be played at our stadium at UNF. It's a great venue, though scheduling could be tricky. JU also has a nice soccer facility, but it may be a bit small for a pro soccer crowd.

[Adam W]

Yeah, that looks like a good one. Small, but it fits the brief!

I think a pro team in Jax would be a great development - it may well be that the current PDL team (is it the Jax Destroyers?) might be the one to eventually be "promoted" or whatever to a higher league (not to MLS, but something along the lines of how the Sounders and Timbers moved up to the MLS - more or less - from lower leagues).

I was reading a bit about soccer in Jax on Wikipedia earlier and was surprised to see that a couple of teams have entries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch%27s_Irish_Pub_F.C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville_United

Apparently both clubs have been somewhat successful. It appears Jacksonville United won the NPSL playoffs, which I had no idea of. I wouldn't be surprised if it was mentioned on the forum, but it was totally news to me!

[Ocklawaha]

In all fairness, both of those stadiums are inappropriate for soccer. Yes, you could fit a soccer pitch on them, but the experience of watching a soccer match on them would be pretty poor. They would do as a compromise, I suppose, but they might do more harm than good - they are both surrounded by running tracks and that separates the crowd from the pitch, leading to a boring, disconnected match experience.

WTF? Sorry Adam, but WHO said we wanted to duplicate either of those stadiums? I simply said taking a page from Daytona Beaches very successful municipal stadium we could... etc... etc...  Nowhere did either Lakelander or myself suggest we build a stadium exactly like those, we merely posted a photo to give folks an idea of what we're talking about.

Lakelander, I'm not sure 4,000 or so is enough for a city of 1.4 million, I wonder if the next phases will bring it up to 15,000-20,000? This considering that back in the 80's we regularly put over 15,000 in the stands for 'Futball.'

[Adam W]

Sorry, Ock, but I didn't mean to imply that you did. I was just making a point of keeping a soccer-specific stadium clearly in focus.

I do, however, think you are overestimating the numbers for Tea Men attendance. We may have had a few games when we managed 15k in attendance (I know the opener was a BIG game in terms of turnout), but I used to go to games regularly and we were lucky to manage 5 - 10K:

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/062506/spo_3578632.shtml

[civil42806]

In all fairness, both of those stadiums are inappropriate for soccer. Yes, you could fit a soccer pitch on them, but the experience of watching a soccer match on them would be pretty poor. They would do as a compromise, I suppose, but they might do more harm than good - they are both surrounded by running tracks and that separates the crowd from the pitch, leading to a boring, disconnected match experience.

WTF? Sorry Adam, but WHO said we wanted to duplicate either of those stadiums? I simply said taking a page from Daytona Beaches very successful municipal stadium we could... etc... etc...  Nowhere did either Lakelander or myself suggest we build a stadium exactly like those, we merely posted a photo to give folks an idea of what we're talking about.

Lakelander, I'm not sure 4,000 or so is enough for a city of 1.4 million, I wonder if the next phases will bring it up to 15,000-20,000? This considering that back in the 80's we regularly put over 15,000 in the stands for 'Futball.'

Sorry Ock, we only put 15000 in the stands a couple of times, think we averaged around 8000 or so

[tufsu1]

Lakelander, I'm not sure 4,000 or so is enough for a city of 1.4 million, I wonder if the next phases will bring it up to 15,000-20,000? This considering that back in the 80's we regularly put over 15,000 in the stands for 'Futball.'

to be fair, its a metro area of 1.4 million....and I really don't see to many people coming up from Flagler/Putnam for soccer matches

[danno]

FC Dallas's stadium hosts football games to make additional revenue, but it was built as a soccer field first.

They added a stage at one end to host concerts... Columbus did the same as well.

[Adam W]

FC Dallas's stadium hosts football games to make additional revenue, but it was built as a soccer field first.

They added a stage at one end to host concerts... Columbus did the same as well.

That's a really good idea. Get increased functionality from the place!

[Adam W]

Something (league/venue) similar to where the Charleston Battery play could suffice - this looks in line with JU's proposed stadium as well.

It occurred to me later, after looking at this picture, how a picture is worth a thousand words. Or parking spaces:


It's amazing the difference in parking spaces for the two different stadiums. White Hart Lane (home of Tottenham Hotspur FC) only has a handful right in the very front - and they aren't for the general public, yet the stadium has a capacity 7X that of Blackbaud Stadium (according to Wikipedia). I guess that goes to show you the impact of decent local transport links - and there's not even a Tube station near White Hart Lane!

[fsquid]

there is a train though that stops right there.  SEven Sisters tube station didn't seem very far either though maybe 20 minute walk?

[Adam W]

there is a train though that stops right there.  SEven Sisters tube station didn't seem very far either though maybe 20 minute walk?

Yeah, there is the train that stops at White Hart Lane station over the road. Seven Sisters Underground station is almost 1.5 miles away (though you can take a bus). Tottenham Hale Underground station is about as far, too - and there is a train station there as well.

There's been talk of extending the Victoria line to serve the stadium, though it's unlikely it will happen. But even though the transport connections aren't stellar compared to some of the other major football stadiums in the city (Arsenal, for example, is served by four Underground stations, two rail stations and the usual compliment of bus routes) - it's still striking to see how it's possible to sell out a stadium weekly without providing parking. Transport links really do make a huge difference.

[fsquid]

density too.  pr probably could fill the stadium simply with the people in a two mile radius

[Adam W]

density too.  pr probably could fill the stadium simply with the people in a two mile radius

Good point - I can see density making a huge difference, come to think of it.

[JaxByDefault]

The logistics of pretty much any sport venue in London are completely alien to the fan experience in the U.S. 

The mile plus walk from Putney Bridge station to Craven Cottage (through Bishop's Park) is part of the club's supporter tradition. Never once heard a complaint. There is absolutely zero parking at The Cottage and very little at nearby Stamford Bridge (which is, however, well serviced by the tube with practically adjacent Fulham-Broadway station). Mind you, Fulham and Chelsea's respective homes are less than 2 miles from each other in the same rather dense west London area. They're fine examples of how to keep using and upgrading historic venues (in the case of FFC) and integrate newer venues into the existing urban fabric. The Olympic venues in east London offer a better example of sports venues as part of area redevelopment.

And Adam W. hit at a great point earlier: Soccer stadiums must be more intimate, with less separation between fans and the pitch than is common in the U.S. Trying to create a small venue stadium that does too much ruins the game (and building a place to accommodate American football definitely spoils the game. FC Dallas is not my favorite MLS stadium by a long shot). That said, in terms of multi-use soccer stadiums, we have some advantages with liberal fan management regulations compared England. The area to accommodate a stage at one end, for example, can be sold as standing room (especially to supporter clubs) here.

I'll keep crossing my fingers that we get something here in JAX -- and that we do it well.