86 parking meters Downtown!

[Noone]

DIA Board meeting 7 hours out. Parking is on the agenda. This is it. Show up and ask for your special Authority zone parking pass.

The legislation is being created and drafted.

Anyone going?

[urbanlibertarian]

From the TU:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-12-03/story/jacksonville-council-mulling-changes-downtown-parking

Jacksonville council mulling changes to downtown parking

By Steve Patterson

Jacksonville’s City Council could allow changes to parking rates downtown to draw in more visitors and new businesses.
The city controls about 4,400 parking spaces in lots or at meters, but ordinances lock in rates for both with only a few exceptions.
“That doesn’t necessarily make the most sense, because it makes it very difficult to change things,” Council President Bill Bishop said. He is co-sponsoring legislation (bill 2012-674) with Don Redman to let the city’s economic development office bargain with companies that might be ready to lease big blocks of parking.
The bill would let the city offer discounts on its usual $85-a-month leases for employee parking if companies will sign year-long agreements or if the type of company or the deal fits goals the city sets for developing an area.
It would also let the economic development office develop new rates for each city-owned lot.
The change “allows us to reflect what the private sector already does, and … really just increase our chance of bringing jobs downtown,” said David DeCamp, a spokesman for Mayor Alvin Brown.
Although one inventory of downtown parking counted thousands of excess spots, complaints about finding parking that’s convenient and affordable have lingered for years.
The city could relieve some gripes by adjusting operation of its lots and garages to meet customers’ needs, said Jack Shad, head of the city public parking office.
“They need to have prices and terms that make sense. It’s not just the city [property] that is reflected, but it’s all of downtown,” Shad said, adding that’s part of improving how visitors perceived downtown. “… The more we make it customer-friendly, the more we encourage people to come downtown.”
The legislation also would give the Office of Economic Development the option of changing what the city charges for metered spaces in specific areas â€" either the hourly rates for parking, how fast the meters expire or times they’re in effect.
How often the meters expire is of real interest to some downtown businesses, and what they want varies shop by shop, said Terry Lorince, executive director of Downtown Vision Inc., a group that works as a downtown advocate and information clearinghouse.
“Some businesses may only want 30-minute meters … another might want only two-hour parking,” said Lorince, whose group asked businesses for reactions to the bill.
The city also could set “discount programs” that would lower the cost in some as-yet unnamed, situations. The programs also could allow stores to sell specially priced smart cards that would work on meters.
“What we like about it is the customer service component of this,” Lorince said, because of the chance to fit meter settings with the needs of surrounding businesses.
Friday, the group posted a blog that endorsed the bill but said it favored having the Downtown Investment Authority handle parking rates and incentives, rather than the economic development office, which has citywide roles. Bishop said the same day that the bill might still be changed to address a role for the authority.
steve.patterson@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4263


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-12-03/story/jacksonville-council-mulling-changes-downtown-parking#ixzz2E0AhXgpB

[ben says]

If I loved you, I think this is becoming pretty obvious that you are garden guy deciding to troll the forums.

I can tell you that I personally will not be taking any further of your posts seriously, and I would advise other posters to adopt the same position regarding your comments.

agree!!!!!!!!!!!!

[marksjax]

Simple solutions are never possible Downtown. Our elected officials and the bureaucracy they control cannot or will not embrace any 'radical' ideas such as doing away with parking meters. What they will do is 'tweak' the current set up somewhat but that still maintains the status quo.
I stand by my position:

86 ALL parking meters Downtown!

Plus my new chant: 'Staus Quo Has Got To Go!'

Pass it along.

[SubMan]

Mark is correct.  The meter division of Jacksonville, since its inception which was about 60 or 70 years ago, has never made enough revenue off of the meters themselves to even pay for the division.  This was also true for Jax Beach, the meters there were removed about 30 years ago mainly due to this fact. 

The fact is that the taxpayers have already paid taxes, property taxes and sales and use taxes, that pay for the streets to be built and maintained.  The meters are a direct form of double taxation.  Direct form.    If a lot is built, or a street is built, with bond money that will be repaid directly from the meter money collected from that lot or street then the meter would be justifiable.  That is, justifiable to any sane person. 

Would Town Center be packed tonight if there were parking meters there to deal with?  Heck no! 

Get rid of the meters and Downtown Jax will be a lot more friendly and accessible.

[airdalecv59]

MarksJax and subman your ingnorance must be corrected. The Parking Meter Division makes $650,000 (Dimes Nickels Quarters add up) per year on meters.  The meter division is a self supporting area, (No money from the taxpayer) so after the paying for direct and indirect cost the excess, around $400,000, goes to the general fund for whatever the city wants to use it for.

[If_I_Loved_you]

If I loved you, I think this is becoming pretty obvious that you are garden guy deciding to troll the forums.

I can tell you that I personally will not be taking any further of your posts seriously, and I would advise other posters to adopt the same position regarding your comments.

agree!!!!!!!!!!!!

F.Y.I. Ben one of the best things put on this site has to be "You are ignoring this user." 

[thelakelander]

MarksJax and subman your ingnorance must be corrected. The Parking Meter Division makes $650,000 (Dimes Nickels Quarters add up) per year on meters.  The meter division is a self supporting area, (No money from the taxpayer) so after the paying for direct and indirect cost the excess, around $400,000, goes to the general fund for whatever the city wants to use it for.

If true, I don't know how this helps the cause of downtown revitalization.  You mean we're punishing downtown visitors for passing up more vibrant destinations for the privilege to visit something that died two decades ago?  Doesn't sound like a good long term solution to increasing the downtown tax base and vibrancy.

[airdalecv59]

There is no such thing as "free" that is the caplistist society we live in. The purpose of metered parking in a nutshell is for short term parking only. Kinda like the express lane at the store, I have owned several business in the urban cores in the Northeast, and had metered spaces in front of my business never had a problem. Everyone cites meters and lack of parking that's stopping downtown from moving forward but that's not the problem the problem lies within the "Lack of Turning Over of Spaces " 

[thelakelander]

There is no such thing as "free" that is the caplistist society we live in.

There is a such thing as a limp noodle of a downtown and we can proudly say that we have one.  Historically, our parking policy has been mentioned as one of the reasons for creating the environment that exists today.  At what point does it become worth it to try and move away from policies that have clearly not worked to the betterment of downtown in over 50 years?

The purpose of metered parking in a nutshell is for short term parking only. Kinda like the express lane at the store, I have owned several business in the urban cores in the Northeast, and had metered spaces in front of my business never had a problem.

Except the express lane costs you the same as the regular lane to use.  We don't necessarily have to charge people to ensure short term parking, if that's the ultimate goal.  Time limited spaces are proven solutions to that situation.  Metered parking (especially those that only take quarters) end up sending people to spend money in nearby neighborhoods where they don't have to worry about carrying a pocket full of quarters.

Everyone cites meters and lack of parking that's stopping downtown from moving forward but that's not the problem the problem lies within the "Lack of Turning Over of Spaces "

I don't think anyone believes parking is the only thing that has been a negative for downtown growth.  However, our parking policy has contributed with several others reasons in the decline of downtown.  I really don't understand why so many want to hang on and preserve policies that clearly work against the ultimate goal of revitalizing the area.

[marksjax]

Airdale, thanks for the insult on one of your first posts, I feel honored.   

Anyway, gov't is not supposed to make 'excessive profit' from the meters. This is long known and based on Florida court cases dating back to the 1930's. Now maybe $400k is not excessive to you but I would say anything over $5k was too much.

Here's the deal, take some of the good suggestions here and TRY them. What on earth do we have to lose? The status quo as regards Downtown has failed us. We are managing Downtown like it is the center of activity it once was 50 years ago.

Go look at how many empty streets with no cars parked in front of the meters there are on any given day. The further away from Hemming Plaza you go the more you see the lack of need for 4500 (?) parking meters in our fair city.

We are not innovating we are regurgitating (the same old ideas).

Time for a change I'd say. Ya got nothing to lose, nothing.

Reassign the meter guys to public works and dismantle the office of special events & let public works build band stages & such instead of hiring PRI ($$$), cause public works used to do that stuff anyway. Then take over cutting the grass in the medians and managing our concert and sports facilities like we used to do successfully (Don Curtis was the Man) .

See, more innovative and money saving ideas free of charge.

But unless we let go the status quo nothing will change...

"Status Quo has got to go!"

[airdalecv59]

Ignorance: "Lack of Knowledge" Marksjax i was referring to your statement that they Parking meters do not produce any revenue and they due. As far as time zones i will enlighten you as to why they don"t work. Time limits are not only inefficient but also difficult to enforce. Surveys (I will refer to Seattle,) often show that more then half of all cars parked in zones with time limits either violate the time limit or are parked in an illegal space ( Fright Loading Zone etc)  and the Labor cost to enforce the time limits would exceed ticket revenue. You would have to have a enforcement person on every street. Not cost effective.

Another issue with Time Zones is people who work in the core, who don't want to park in a long time garage, even if they don't violate the time limits, drivers can evade them them by moving there vehicle regularly, thus occupying a space for a potianal customer for a business.

[Ocklawaha]

Ignorance: "Lack of Knowledge" Marksjax i was referring to your statement that they Parking meters do not produce any revenue and they due.

While I'm the last person to claim mastery of the English (or Spanish) languages, it seems to me suggesting 'ignorance' while using two incorrect words in the same sentence speaks volumes.

As far as time zones i will enlighten you as to why they don"t work. Time limits are not only inefficient but also difficult to enforce. Surveys (I will refer to Seattle,) often show that more then half of all cars parked in zones with time limits either violate the time limit or are parked in an illegal space ( Fright Loading Zone etc)  and the Labor cost to enforce the time limits would exceed ticket revenue. You would have to have a enforcement person on every street. Not cost effective.

If someone parks in an unmetered 'freight loading zone,' what is the difference if the spaces before and after it are metered? You simply have the exact same number of spaces, the same amount of people parking and the same amount of ticket revenue by removing the meters. What you lose is the cost of maintaining the darn things and I'd call that 'cost effective.'

Another issue with Time Zones is people who work in the core, who don't want to park in a long time garage, even if they don't violate the time limits, drivers can evade them them by moving there vehicle regularly, thus occupying a space for a potianal customer for a business.

What stops a person from violating the time limit today by going downstairs and feeding the meter? Same result. Use of any enforcement check ranging from chalk on a stick to the new GPS systems can take care of that.

[marksjax]

Airedale, I never stated that they did not produce revenue. Obviously they do. My comment was as to the legality of doing so (excessive profit).
But mainly my post is about the need to radically change the way we operate Downtown and starting with the meters seemed a good choice.

[urbanlibertarian]

Modern technology would allow COJ to adequately enforce time limits without having an "enforcement person on every street".  Ticket revenue would, I would think, cover most of the cost of that equipment.  Jax's DT probably does not even vaguely resemble the northeast urban areas you lived in.  Time limits appear to be working well in downtowns like ours.