Downtown Tunnels story on Channel 4

[fsujax]

Towards the end of the article the tunnels at Jacksonville Terminal are mentioned. Ock should like this.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/26079680/detail.html

[thelakelander]

I work in the old Atlantic Bank Annex building on Adams and yes, there's tunnels under here.  The garage we park in on Forsyth & Hogan also has tunnels.  Take the elevator down instead of up and you can walk to the BB&T tower or 121 Forsyth without touching or seeing the street. 

[Debbie Thompson]

I worked in downtown Oklahoma City and many of the major downtown buildings, as well as a large parking garage, are connected with a tunnel system.  Along the tunnel are little shops and restaurants.  When the 0 degree wind comes "sweeping down the plain" in January, it's really nice to be able to walk the tunnel to go to lunch or to a street level restaurant that connects to the tunnel! 

I used to work in that building too, Lake, but I never got to go in the older tunnels...just the main one that goes from there to the garage, by Benny's Sandwich Shop.  Wish I could see those, too.  Between these and the tunnels at the Prime Osborn, we could really have a cool destination.  Can you imagine a chi-chi restaurant called "The Vault" in the old bank vault?

[JaxNative68]

someone needs to set up an underground jacksonville tour.  could even charge admission.  or maybe a speakeasy themed bar that would literally be underground.

[Ocklawaha]

Where the hell was Noone when I needed him? Someone get a boat...yeah
it was DEEP and COLD AS....

I've been under at least 8 of the buildings downtown and into their tunnels. Y'all are singing my song here. An underground entertainment district would be a hell of a lot cooler (pun intended) then a Jacksonville sidewalk in July. Imagine a year around shirt sleeve comfortable temperature. Joel and company ought to see the stuff under the lllll llllll because it is FANTASTIC... at least 2 big vaults.

As for the terminal, get this... JTA told Amtrak and/or FDOT that the old Concourse tunnels were "old baggage tunnels". So Amtrak added comments which went into FDOT'S JRTC plan that cuts up the tunnels for... BAGGAGE! So now the idiots want to build a ridiculous scene stealing, modern, overhead concourse for passengers. All of this after I engaged an FDOT "EXPERT" in a near shouting match at a public hearing on the building, he shouting "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT! THE TUNNELS ARE GONE! THERE ARE NO MORE TUNNELS!" Me shaking my head and telling all of the gathered that I would PROVE they were still there. So guess who we get to blame for another stupid plan?

SEE OUR STORY: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-union-station-tunnels-intact

Hopefully a much wiser planner rising within JTA can hold these fools at bay until the Skyway crowd leaves the building. MAYBE...

OCKLAWAHA

[Jason]

That would be friggin sweet!  How about a bar at the old vault!

[rjr120]

Does anyone have a link to the story?  It is no longer on Channel 4's web site.  It's a shame I missed the story.  Let's hope the Union Terminal tunnels are still there.  No telling what JTA would do after someone called their bluff on them, hehe.

[thelakelander]

They are still there.  I believe those tunnels are on FEC ROW.

[spuwho]

I just went back and re-read Ock's tunnel story from 2008.

The lowering of the Park Street bridge was not a good idea, especially now that I have read the McCoy's Creek history. With Riverside completely rebuilt, I would say Park is redundant. Even if Brooklyn is rebuilt completely, future travelers, commuters could use a properly design pedestrian bridge.

Re-use of the tunnels in the future I would ask about ADA access requirements, current safety codes and the quality of the brick mortar in the support columns.  Mortar that was never designed in 1919 to be submerged.

Also, having a tunnel in proximity to a creek known to flood, in what used to be a marsh, 500 yards from a river subject to storm surge.

Maybe this is why some of those planners were looking to go "high" instead of low.

[Ocklawaha]

Actually its the modern planners that want to go low. They've already breeched federal law in placing the FEC in the flood zone.

It is true that the original tunnels like the Myrtle Avenue Underpass are built in what was once a swamp. I've seen photos of it when the area resembled the reeds and creeks of the Intercoastal Waterway. The first Union Station was actually just a shared depot, the second was in the old Southern Express Building which was just west of the So-Called Flagler Depot that opened on Feb 4, 1895.  It was the back to back hurricanes and tropical storms of (so much for Jacksonville being hurricane proof!) 1896, 1898, 1900, 1906, 1907, 1910, 1914, 1915 and 1916 and the subsequent floods that convinced the railroads to build the tunnels above the surface of the original railroad yards, starting a foot above the high tide line in the Myrtle Avenue Tunnel. They then brought in about a quarter of a million cubic yards of fill and covered them up thus creating tunnels. So believe it or not, the tunnels are above the high tide line.

The tunnels were accessed by a long sloping ramp which descended from the south end of the concourse, there were/are ramps which came up between every two tracks ascending to a train side platform. Here's a map of the main concourse, the ramps ascended on the west side of the concourse:

This is the layout of the 3rd Union Station.

A similar concourse at the Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal, showing the tunnel above and the ramp to the platforms below.

There is absolutely zero reason why FDOT/JTA/COJ couldn't make use of the surviving tunnel system.

As a comic aside, as soon as this story hit MJ, FDOT promptly changed their plans and decided these were "Old Baggage Tunnels," which is completely wrong, NOTHING but carry on bags ever went down in the tunnels. So what shows up on the Amtrak/JTA/JRTC monstrosity?  "OLD BAGGAGE TUNNELS and NEW BAGGAGE TUNNELS." Enter the Florida Times Union articles about the JRTC and sure enough the "Baggage Tunnels" get prime mention. Makes you wonder what part of NO these guys don't understand.