Homeless Center In the Old Armory Building...Brilliant!

[Miss Fixit]

Here is information about the Armory from Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage, which identifies the architect as W.B. Talley:

D-89
OLD DUVAL COUNTY ARMORY
(Maxwell G. Snyder Armory;  Jacksonville Recreation and
Public Affairs Department)
851 NORTH MARKET STREET
DATE: 1915-1916
ARCHITECT: Talley & Summer
BUILDER: F. W. Long

As early as 1835, local military companies were formed in Jacksonville to protect the populace from marauding Indians. Until the 1880's, when all Florida troops were consolidated, a dozen of these local armies were organized in the county.  They quelled riots, fought against the Northern troops in the Civil War, and generally were on call to keep the peace.  These various military organizations had colorful names such as  Jacksonville Light Infantry, the Duval County Mounted Volunteer Guard, the St. Johns Greys, Wilson's Battery, the Jacksonville Rifles, and the Duval County Cowboys.  These local companies occupied different buildings as armories until 1897 when a three-story armory for all of the troops was built at the southwest corner of Market and Adams Streets.  This building was destroyed in the 1901 Fire, and a new armory was built, using the remaining walls of the burned out courthouse  (D-46).  This building proved inadequate for the purpose, and in 1914 a $150,000 bond issue was floated to construct the present building.  The building-permit application lists the architects as Talley & Summer, although a plaque on the building lists only W. B. Talley as the architect.  Upon its completion in 1916, the armory was reported to have Florida's largest military drill  hall. This building is monumental and fortress-like, with battlemented towers and parapets.  A carved stone shield with the emblem of the Florida National Guard tops the central pavilion.  The brick work on the upper story displays several fanciful designs, including corbeling below the parapet.  The dramatic arched entrance at the center of the facade echoes this corbeled effect. The name of the Duval County armory was changed in 1962 to the Maxwell G. Snyder Armory, honoring the commanding general of the National Guard's 48th Armored Division.  In 1973 the city's Recreation and Public Affairs Department took over the old armory building.  Although somewhat isolated from other downtown buildings, it is an interesting part of our city's military and architectural heritage.

[sheclown]

Does anyone have any pictures from inside? 

[Pinky]

Pinky, Springfield still has 4 alco houses and 4 sober houses.  Four are within a block of our house.  All well run and no issue for the community, but really, until you have 8 active social services facilities within a few blocks of your house, you have no right to call someone else a NIMBY.  Springfield is the most supportive, diverse, welcoming, and generous neighborhood in which I have lived in Jacksonville.  We just don't think we should be expected to shoulder more than our share of the social services of the city.

If I Loved You, apparently you don't want to cause an issue with one company, Sally Industries, but causing an issue for thousands of residents of a still-struggling historic neighborhood is OK with you.

I live downtown; there are tons of homeless shelters within a few blocks of me.  *ALL* of them, actually, so don't talk to me about a neighborhood having to "shoulder more than our load".  Downtown shoulders the vast majority of the homeless "load" for North Florida.

So now that we've established my "right" (by your measure) to speak on the subject, I shall continue.

I drove by the Armory today, the first time I ever really paid attention to the building, and was struck by what a great old building it is.  It deserves to be used for *something*, and I think it would make an excellent Day Center. 

I also noted that it's not actually in Springfield at all; it's barely across Union St!  Considering the location of the shelters here in town it's ideally located to serve the homeless.

Beyond not actually being in Springfield, I can't imagine how it would ever cause more homeless people to make their way up to Springfield at all.  I mean, these people are hoofing it, Shoe-Leather Express, anywhere they go, they're walking.  It's not like they're going to go hiking up into Springfield to cause mayhem and destroy the fabric of society; there's no reason for them to expend the energy. 

It's specifically that "forced efficiency of movement" that would benefit downtown, by focusing the daily migration of the homeless on the northern edges of downtown, and away from the core.  It wouldn't be necessary to burn Hemming Plaza and salt the earth if the Day Center was located at The Armory; there simply wouldn't be any reason for the homeless folks to hike over to Hemming.

I realize that it may make me the minority here on MJ, but I totally support using the Armory for a Day Center.  Seems a perfect location to me.  Especially since it's downtown, and officially in my backyard.  Guess that makes me a YIMBY? 

[thelakelander]

A day center doesn't need 80,000 square feet.  That's overkill, both space and money wise for Jacksonville taxpayers.

[sheclown]

A day center doesn't need 80,000 square feet.  That's overkill, both space and money wise for Jacksonville taxpayers.

But it would make an excellent Southern Rock Hall of Fame.

[thelakelander]

Here is information about the Armory from Jacksonville's Architectural Heritage, which identifies the architect as W.B. Talley:

Speaking of W.B. Talley. Talley's wife and daughter were killed in a train accident in 1919, resulting in Talley deciding to leave Jacksonville.  After leaving Jacksonville, he became a prominent architect in Central Florida.

Daughter of prominent architect W.B. Talley, Sarah was killed by an unseen train when her mother drove the automobile they were riding in into its path. The accident occurred on Old Orange Park Road, now Roosevelt Blvd, near Fishweir Creek. There were 5 children between the ages of 12 and 14 years old in the car, plus Mrs. Talley. All were killed instantly except Sarah, who died in the hospital the next day. Closed storm curtains on the automobile was determined to be the reason Mrs. Talley did not see the oncoming train.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=55174566

After picking Christmas greenery in the woods, prominent Springfield residents, miles from home, crossed the railroad tracks south of Fishweir Creek on the old Orange Park Road, now Roosevelt Boulevard, a scene laden with undetected danger.

At 4:40 p.m., Dec. 21, 1919, Atlantic Coast Line passenger train No. 85 hurled through their automobile as the car traveled toward a small, iron bridge over the creek. It was not the first or last accident between train and car on Orange Park Road.

The merry group had driven to their outing, southwest of Jacksonville, from homes north of town on Boulevard, West Seventh Street, Silver Street and other nearby addresses to gather holly and seasonal foliage. On the shell road in the St. Johns Park area, inclement weather dictated the passengers close the car's storm curtains, and as determined from the words of the last to die, they neither saw nor heard the train.

Six people were killed at this Orange Park Road railroad crossing on Dec. 21, 1919. Special from Florida Archives

Six people rode in the large Mitchell touring car, a popular make of the time despite the company's recent bankruptcy. The train's engineer, by all accounts a reliable and seasoned performer, stated the Mitchell simply drove onto the railroad tracks 50 feet in front of his engine. Although he blew his siren, had the car passengers heard the horn, time was well past his ability to stop the train.

full article: http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031304/neR_15051422.shtml

[sheclown]

Thanks Lake.  Interesting story.

[Timkin]

Pinky, Springfield still has 4 alco houses and 4 sober houses.  Four are within a block of our house.  All well run and no issue for the community, but really, until you have 8 active social services facilities within a few blocks of your house, you have no right to call someone else a NIMBY.  Springfield is the most supportive, diverse, welcoming, and generous neighborhood in which I have lived in Jacksonville.  We just don't think we should be expected to shoulder more than our share of the social services of the city.

If I Loved You, apparently you don't want to cause an issue with one company, Sally Industries, but causing an issue for thousands of residents of a still-struggling historic neighborhood is OK with you.

I live downtown; there are tons of homeless shelters within a few blocks of me.  *ALL* of them, actually, so don't talk to me about a neighborhood having to "shoulder more than our load".  Downtown shoulders the vast majority of the homeless "load" for North Florida.

So now that we've established my "right" (by your measure) to speak on the subject, I shall continue.

I drove by the Armory today, the first time I ever really paid attention to the building, and was struck by what a great old building it is.  It deserves to be used for *something*, and I think it would make an excellent Day Center. 

I also noted that it's not actually in Springfield at all; it's barely across Union St!  Considering the location of the shelters here in town it's ideally located to serve the homeless.

Beyond not actually being in Springfield, I can't imagine how it would ever cause more homeless people to make their way up to Springfield at all.  I mean, these people are hoofing it, Shoe-Leather Express, anywhere they go, they're walking.  It's not like they're going to go hiking up into Springfield to cause mayhem and destroy the fabric of society; there's no reason for them to expend the energy. 

It's specifically that "forced efficiency of movement" that would benefit downtown, by focusing the daily migration of the homeless on the northern edges of downtown, and away from the core.  It wouldn't be necessary to burn Hemming Plaza and salt the earth if the Day Center was located at The Armory; there simply wouldn't be any reason for the homeless folks to hike over to Hemming.

I realize that it may make me the minority here on MJ, but I totally support using the Armory for a Day Center.  Seems a perfect location to me.  Especially since it's downtown, and officially in my backyard.  Guess that makes me a YIMBY? 

You couldn't be any more minority than I am, Pinky. 

[Debbie Thompson]

I stand corrected, and stand down.  I always manage to hurt peoples' feelings when discussing this subject. I have friends who run some of the Springfield facilities - and run them very well.  I stuck my foot in my mouth - again - and said things, not intended to be hurtful, but hurtful nevertheless.  Clearly I'm out of my element on this subject.

[strider]

The Armory was not the best location for a permanent day center. Perhaps no existing, ready to use structure is.  I know a figure of 9.8 mil was thrown out to re-hab the Armory and then in another post, someone claimed 1.6 mil., but I doubt very much would have been spent to make it suitable for a 6 month pilot program and that is most likely why it was under consideration.  While many have complained about the lack of due diligence on the part of the Mayor's office, once it came out that this was a 6 month pilot program, the choices made more sense.  It seems the handling of the information was worse than the choices they were making.  In any case, the Armory is off the table and now badly needs another use. 

[Timkin]

Well ... I suggest for that kind of money, the City rehabbing the Annie Lytle School and using it as a day center, since it seems no one else is going to step up, let alone help  , but I doubt anyone agrees and the neighbors, of course , in the neighborhood don't want homeless in their neighborhood.  so  this is probably another bad idea that no one will embrace.


Pinky, I rescind my original statement about the Armory and agree with you.  Its better than the building sitting empty and following the fate of so many historic buildings in Jacksonville.