Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval

[thelakelander]

It was approved 3-1.  Chris Flagg voted against it because he believes the product isn't best suited for that piece of property.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-09-06/story/city-board-oks-concept-parking-garage-across-jacksonville-landing

Ashish Bahl, a Parador principal, said the 65 percent occupancy rate is not an arbitrary number.
“That's the point when we make money, and we’re more than happy to funnel it back into Jacksonville,” he said.

The parking garage could fulfill the city’s long-standing obligation to provide parking for the Landing, if the mall’s ownership agreed. In that case, the city would earmark up to $132,500 per year to Parador for a maximum payout of almost $1.6 million for a parking validation program that would give discounted parking to Landing patrons.

The validation program would begin five years after the garage is built. The Landing owner, Toney Sleiman, so far has not agreed to let the proposed garage fulfill the city’s obligation.

[Tacachale]

Expected, but terrible.

[JeffreyS]

They defiantly let everyone down after big talk in the first meeting. Pathetic please retire you incompetent boobs.

[dougskiles]

Definitely a let down.  It was really as if the workshop in June never happened.  What's more bizarre, is that the city is holding the cards in this game.  Without the public grant, the parking garage can't happen - with or without ground floor retail.

What I learned most from today, is that I have a LOOOOONG way to go in understanding how things work in Jacksonville.

[jcjohnpaint]

I dont agree with Sleiman often, but discounted rate- that is crap.  Deal broken and the city knows it.  That retail area will never be built and there is no need for this garage. 

[fieldafm]

Both Doug and I spoke, with Doug also reading Tachale's statement into the records.

Not sure what was more painful... Listening to the architect who normally designs commecial buildings in industrial parks complete jibber jabber about what an urban environment should look like... Or the complete look of dismay on the faces of the board members who didn't grasp the economic reality that retail bays under 40' in depth are about 40-45' too short (even using a local example in the Everbank Plaza garage on Riverside Ave) and all you needed to do to rectify that was move the damn building about 25 feet to make it happen(which there is enough room to do so).  It was also made clear that the mayor wanted this deal to happen. 

Meanwhile, twenty plus years and counting and the Landing is still waiting on the City to fulfill its parking obligation. 

And the applicant was correct, 65 percent occupancy was not arbitrary.  Given that once Class A office space reaches 50pct occupancy, the building becomes much more attractive to sell.  Given the low acquisition costs of the building 4 years ago, my guess is Parador sells it before that 65pct number is reached, thereby dissolving themselves of the responsibility of building the retail which they have made clear is not their kind of business.  All the while they get taxpayer assistance to make that kind of transaction possible.  That's a sweet deal, glad we the taxpayers can subsidize building permanent dead zones on PRIME downtown real estate. 

[thelakelander]

I'm not surprised, although it is a shame we've got people making these types of long term environment shaping decisions that don't understand basic retailing principles.  Next time you drive to your local strip center or drop by SJTC  make note of the average retail bay depth and width.   You'll notice they average nearly double or triple of what we've been approving in our downtown garage designs, which we'll then turn around and say there's no market because we can't lease the poorly designed spaces. 

This is an example of why downtown is the way it is today after 50 years of revitalization talk and money spent.  Unfortunately, until we can't get the simplistic basics right, don't expect much out of the new DIA or Mayor Brown either.  I'd love to be proven wrong but I've got over a half century of facts backing my position.  That's one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of spending massive amounts of money to "market" when we can't get the basics right for free.  Seriously, if we can get the basics right, most of downtown's issues will resolve themselves fairly quickly and without significant cost to the taxpayer.

[JaxJag]

PLEASE GOD, dont let this lip-sticked pig be built or ill be forever ashamed of our city's officials and thier choice to let such an obomination be built, as will everyone else who cares for Real GROWTH in downtown. You want to see growth downtown well THIS IS NOT IT.

[JeffreyS]

I may have just given up on Jax.

[thelakelander]

No need to give up. It illustrates what a lot of us already have known.  To turn things around, we'll have to do a lot of things ourselves and "in spite of", which is an unfortunate reality.

[thelakelander]

Sleiman says the garage doesn't work for the Landing.  Why are we building this again?

But Sleiman doesn’t see this garage as the answer.
“It’s too small. It’s not what I need,” he said. “If I have a major tenant that needs exclusive parking, that can’t provide it.”
Even if it doesn’t fulfill its obligation to Sleiman, some city officials say this garage will nonetheless help relieve downtown parking woes.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-09-06/story/more-parking-jacksonville-landing-moves-step-forward

[dougskiles]

^To help fill up the SunTrust building.

The question is - if the garage provided dedicated parking for the Landing, would Sleiman accept it as satisfying the parking agreement?

[thelakelander]

^From my understanding, the $3.5 million was for the Landing's parking situation, not Suntrust.  It appears COJ believes this will satisfy their obligation. So is it safe to assume, we're going to have another fight on our hands between Sleiman and COJ?

[fsujax]

^^Yep. Doesn't this still have to be approved by City Council? maybe it can be stopped there.

[CG7]

I could live with the garage without retail, if the plaza they are planning on the future retail site could be constructed in such a way a to allow food trucks to set up every day.