FDOT Secretary to provide update on Outer Beltway

[thelakelander]

Some notes I took while listening the beltway presentation today.

1. FDOT said they've spent $239 million maintaining and upgrading the former toll bridges through town, since the tolls were removed.  They said not one red cent of the sales tax money that replaced the tolls has been given to them.

2. Since Jax residents have paid $26 million to construct the existing portion of the Outer Beltway in Duval, they won't toll the section between I-10 and New World Parkway.  FDOT claims by not tolling this section, they are losing $47 million in lost toll revenue.

3. If you drive from Blanding to I-10, you'll pay $2.20 in tolls.  However, they expect the average toll per trip on the Outer Beltway will be in the range of $1.20 to $1.50.  If you lived out there and choose to drive on the Outer Beltway, that adds up between $876 to $1,095 in tolls per year.  Hopefully, you don't have a two car household, lol.

4. Something like $187 million has already been invested in the road so far.  That cost hasn't been included in the construction numbers being tossed around now.

5. As predicted here, toll revenue is anticipated to only cover the construction of maintenance of the Outer Beltway itself.  Funding for local roads that will have to be expanded or widened, new schools, police/fire, etc. from potential new development will be the responsibility of the local taxpayer.

6. They believe the highway will create 65,000 jobs when its completed.  As Stephendare would say, I'll bet you a dollar it doesn't.

7. If there's one thing that FDOT was dead on in this presentation is about it needing to be a toll road.  You bet your bottom dollar this thing needs to have tolls.  Money to burn on this type of infrastructure doesn't grow on trees and we can't even keep our public libraries operating properly, much less find money in our budget for something like this.  Ultimately, the proper answer would have been "thanks but no thanks, FDOT," but as a whole, we haven't realized that these type of projects actually bankrupt us long term. 

8. Some guy in Clay County stood up to talk in support of the Outer Beltway and mentioned Jacksonville's I-295 on the Westside as a good example.  However, I-295 was constructed in 1970.  It's been around over 40 years now.  COJ should be swimming in cash with multiple investments like this over the years but our budget is still in the red.

9. There were contradictions as well.  Clay County is sold that companies employing thousands of workers will flock to their community because they'll have their first expressway, even though those company workers will have to shell out toll money twice a day to get to and from work.  On the flip end, Jacksonville people thanked FDOT for not tolling the section between I-10 and Cecil Commerce Center.  They say that if it were tolled, it would hurt Cecil's ability to attract economic development.  Hmmm....

10. Oh, and the Outer Beltway has been someone's wet dream since the 1960s.  It took a half century but someone is finally going to round home plate.

[pwhitford]

God help us, the lunatics are in charge of the asylum ...

From the FTU:

State moving forward with First Coast Outer Beltway - Construction from Interstate 10 to Blanding Boulevard begins next year

Posted: August 23, 2012 - 12:54pm  |  Updated: August 23, 2012 - 4:00pm

By Larry Hannan

The Florida Department of Transportation will begin building the First Coast Outer Beltway as a toll road from Interstate 10 in Duval County to Blanding Boulevard in Clay County in 2013.

The First Coast Outer Beltway is also known as Branan Field Road or Florida 23. As part of the $230 million project the state will take the existing 15-mile Cecil Commerce Parkway and Branan Field Road and turn it into a four-lane toll road with flyovers built at New World Avenue, Normandy Boulevard, 103rd Street and other roadways that intersect the road.

For the first time Thursday the state released a list of estimated tolls for the roadway. It would cost $2.20 to travel all the way from I-10 to Blanding, with five separate tolls being assessed.

State officials said they would move forward with the project after the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization unanimously supported the state’s plan to build it as a toll road Thursday morning. Florida Secretary of Transportation Ananth Prasad said the state would have walked away from the project without the local support.

The project will be financed by the Florida Turnpike Enterprise, which will get its money back from the tolls. Traffic from I-10 will not be tolled until after New World Avenue. This allows people to travel to and from the Cecil Commerce Center without having to pay a toll.

Construction from I-10 to about a mile north of Argyle Forest Boulevard will begin in March 2013, with construction down to Blanding Boulevard beginning in Sept. 2013. Both sections of road will take about three years to complete.

The state also unveiled it’s most comprehensive argument Tuesday on why toll roads should come back to Jacksonville. Voters approved a half cent sales tax in 1988 that did away with tolls the Jacksonville Transportation Authority assessed on the Mathews, Hart, Fuller Warren and Trout River bridges and on Butler Boulevard - and were planned for the new Dames Point bridge.

Critics like former Mayor Tommy Hazouri have argued that bringing tolls back to Jacksonville violates a promise made to the citizens who approved the 1988 tax. But state officials reject that argument.

“The Florida Department of Transportation has received no revenue from this sales tax,” said James Bennett, Florida Department of Transportation’s urban development manager. “But we have done $239 million in improvements on the bridges that were once tolled over the years.”

Prasad said the current sales taxes and gas taxes that fund transportation are not sufficient to build something like the Outer Beltway. He asked the TPO, which prioritizes long-term transportation projects and has representation from every county government in Northeast Florida, to vote in favor of the project because he wanted it on record that Northeast Florida supported building the toll road.

TPO members voting in favor included Jacksonville City Council President Bill Bishop, County Council member Reggie Brown, Clay Commissioner Doug Conkey, St. Johns Commissioner Danny Leeper and St. Johns Commissioner Mark Miner.

One person who has not been completely supportive is Jacksonville Mayor Alvin Brown, who was not at Thursday’s meeting. Last year officials with the Brown administration said the mayor supported the road, but was opposed to tolling it.

Prasad shrugged when asked about the Mayor’s lack of support.

“With all due respect to Mayor Brown, this is not his decision to make,” Prasad said. “I don’t tell him how to do his budget and he doesn’t tell me whether we can build the Outer Beltway.”

Prasad said he would have no problem with Jacksonville repealing the 1988 sales tax.

“I don’t think sales taxes should fund road capacity,” he said. “You don’t want to rely on people buying a pair of jeans to build a road.”

But Jacksonville General Counsel Cindy Laquidara has previously said that can’t happen

The city and JTA took out bonds to finance Better Jacksonville road projects and the current principal outstanding on the transportation bonds is $554.2 million, add in interest payments and the total debt service is $866.7 million.

The sales tax cannot be repealed until the bonds are paid off, or the city finds another revenue stream to replace the sales tax, Laquidara said.

“The sales tax revenue has been legally pledged to pay back the bonds, “ Laquidara said.

About 20 public speakers urged the TPO to support the Outer Beltway, with arguments it would help bring economic development into the region. Supportive speakers included Green Cove Springs Mayor Pam Lewis, executive vice president of JAX Chamber Jerry Mallot, St. Johns Chamber of Commerce President Kirk Wendland, former Clay County Commissioner and current state Senate candidate Rob Bradley and State Rep. Lake Ray, R-Jacksonville.

Clay County resident Curt Kinder was the only speaker to express reservation about the Beltway, worrying that local residents wouldn’t use the toll road, and that would cause congestion on other roads.

Kinder advocated building frontage roads along the Beltway to ease the traffic problems.

Tolls will be collected using a fully automated system called SunPass, which has become ubiquitous in areas like Interstate 95 in Miami and on the Florida Turnpike.

SunPass does not have toll booths; it allows traffic to move at full speed through a toll area that automatically deducts tolls from a credit card account via a transponder that has been attached to the front windshield of someone’s car.

If someone doesn’t have a transponder in their car, the license plate is photographed and a bill is sent to the owner of the car.

The state still has to figure out a way to extend the road 31 miles down to I-95 in St. Johns County. The state’s plan had been to hire a private partner that would build the roadway and then maintain it and charge the tolls.

Prasad said once the portion from I-10 to Blanding was built, private companies would be more willing to step up and do the next section because the area from I-10 to Blanding would be making money.

“There were some companies willing to build this section,” Prasad said, referring to the area from I-10 to Blanding, “But the tolls would have been to high.”

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-23/story/state-moving-forward-first-coast-outer-beltway#ixzz24PI8lC3f

[thelakelander]

^Being there, it was pretty funny listening to the FDOT Secretary telling them he's ready to take his road money and go home if they don't accept his tolling structure.  After that, pure groveling and ring kissing.  One could definitely tell who was the Don Juan in the room.

[jcjohnpaint]

Maybe he learns from the developers. 
Sounds like s#Hit to me.  There are so many holes in this argument. 
Quote:
Critics like former Mayor Tommy Hazouri have argued that bringing tolls back to Jacksonville violates a promise made to the citizens who approved the 1988 tax. But state officials reject that argument.
“The Florida Department of Transportation has received no revenue from this sales tax,” said James Bennett, Florida Department of Transportation’s urban development manager. “But we have done $239 million in improvements on the bridges that were once tolled over the years.”
?
Then where does the money go? 

[thelakelander]

They say the money never leaves local hands.  So I guess JTA and COJ.

[tufsu1]

4. Something like $187 million has already been invested in the road so far.  That cost hasn't been included in the construction numbers being tossed around now.

they've spent $170 million so far....expect construction to be another $230 million....so $400m total

[jcjohnpaint]

ugh we can't win!

[Know Growth]

The Beltway concept is a decades old booster dream.
From the earliest days of the Local Government Planning Act,Clay County future roadway map depicted a broad loop aligned further west at the approach to Penny Farms.
Reinhold Corp. has been a key Beltway promoter,crucial Brannon Chaffee and Lake Asbury Sector Plans.

We were able to reroute away from the Ravines Conservation area,hence the previously envisioned southwest bulge has been tucked in.

Note the entire project got it's juice from the erroneous promotion of Brannon Chaffee road as "alternate" to Blanding Blvd.MPO Chief Calvin Burney stated in the press that 30,000 cars a day(ADT) would use Brannon Chaffee 'as soon as it opens'- in fact,30,000 ADT would only occur after a period of modeled time,and largely as a result of the 'growth' BC would spur.

Eventually "stand alone" I-10 to Blanding DOT Corps of Engineers/Water Management District permit application process got a nudge towards approval from Mayor Delaney.

Former Trust for Public Lands 1900 acre mitigation parcel became abbreviated-600 acres reserved in natural state....the rest became Oak Leaf.

Who here can recite when the legally binding NO BUILD option quietly came,and went?!

The episodes the citizens of lake Asbury experienced remind me of current events Avondale.

[tufsu1]

The Beltway concept is a decades old booster dream.

exactly....the power brokers (especially in Clay County) love this thing!

and as far as the NO BUILD option that know growth refers to, the southern 2/3 of the project hasn't received its federal environmental approvals yet...so the NO BUILD isn't completely dead just yet

[Know Growth]

The Beltway concept is a decades old booster dream.

exactly....the power brokers (especially in Clay County) love this thing!

........so the NO BUILD isn't completely dead just yet

You obviously do not understand this aspect of previously potentially binding pre PD&I yourself.

[thelakelander]

Oh, they were throwing the praises today about how this new highway would even stimulate new growth at Jaxport.  However, at least Clay County was honest about why its their top priority project.  They want more sprawl development and aren't afraid to admit it.  While I believe the type of growth pattern they're promoting is somewhat outdated and unsustainable, at least they are honest about their intentions.

[Know Growth]

However, at least Clay County was honest about why its their top priority project.  They want more sprawl development and aren't afraid to admit it.  While I believe the type of growth pattern they're promoting is somewhat outdated and unsustainable, at least they are honest about their intentions.

State DCA had to scale back Clay County Brannon Chaffee Sector Plan,Lake Asbury Sector Plan desires.

Don't think for a minute Clay County boosters,residents are visioning commute to Duval (no matter how rail/street car et al idyllic). The call for 'employment centers' within Clay a component of future growth.

[thelakelander]

Oh, they are open about it.  I'm just not sold that companies will be flocking to build along a road where their employees will be forced to pay daily tolls.  Just look at the rest of the toll roads across the State verses the ones where tolls aren't charged.  The majority of the type of economic growth Clay is dreaming about, don't flock to toll roads.  Just along the beltway alone, if its Clay verses Cecil, I'm locating near Cecil and I-10.

[thelakelander]

This was the picture that popped in my head when the FDOT secretary was making the quoted statement below:

“If you direct us today by passing the resolution, we are ready to go forward and invest $230 million in construction projects and get this economy going and this region going,” FDOT Secretary Ananth Prasad said before the vote.

He warned the board that not approving the resolution would mean an end to funding for the beltway, a project estimated to cost a total of $1.8 billion.

“I have $30 billion in unfunded needs in this state. I cannot keep spending millions of dollars on corridors where nobody wants corridors to be built. I’ve got other places, many projects, many communities who are more than willing to have us come down and make infrastructure improvements,” said Prasad.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=537333

Btw, I do believe the community asked for less than $1 million to keep the Mayport Ferry up and running and was told to go take a hike.

[tufsu1]

they asked for $200,000 and were turned down...never mind that FDOT subsidizes a ferry in the keys every year with more than double that amount