Tampa takes a hit, better hope they never find Jacksonville!

[mtraininjax]

Jacksonville can be bankrupt, but if it's workforce is young and very well educated the companies will still flock here, me thinks.

I disagree, and I live here and see it daily, businesses invest when they feel comfortable about their plans for profit, if there is an uncertain future (taxes, education, issues with public safety - all items on the table with the city and how to pay for them, not to mention pensions), there are safer locations in Florida and the country. The stigma of bankruptcy is like the Scarlet Letter and takes a while to be removed. We do not want to become the pariah of Florida. This is an extreme, but people do not move to a bankrupt area when there are so many other good options in Florida and the folks here have done a good job of pointing out the more progressive areas of Florida.

Stockton, California will forever be known as a bankrupt city, even when the economy comes back. I'd rather we not experience that title.

[simms3]

I disagree and I'll leave it at that.  What makes or breaks a city isn't a one time event, but rather the dynamics of the people and the workforce within the city.  The city must attract the right work force for the economy it is trying to build, and then everything else takes a backseat in importance to firms within that type of economy.

Stockton was a POS before and is a POS now.  Idiots moved there before and nobody moves there now.  An entire economy built on a fake real estate boom and a workforce consisting of poor retirees, criminals, and uneducated idiots now stuck there.  Very transparent situation to most of the world.  It would be in just as bad a shape without the bankruptcy as with because it has nothing going for it.

NYC was technically bankrupt for an entire decade.  Orange County went bankrupt in the 90s.  For all intents and purposes both Birmingham and Atlanta went bankrupt within the past decade.

These things happen.  Taxes are raised, water bills become the highest in the country, etc etc.  All of that doesn't matter if you have the educated workforce and the inflow of immigrants most medium-sized to larger-sized or certain small/start up firms need to exist.

Anyway I hope Jacksonville does not go bankrupt, but really can the city pay for anything anyways?  I would think bankruptcy would be a nominal condition.  The same condition plaguing Atlanta also plagues Jacksonville - the inability and lack of funds to build proper and significant infrastructure.  The only difference lies in the workforce and more firms are willing to overlook certain things like bad schools and awful infrastructure and higher taxes to be in Atlanta over Jacksonville because of the workforce in place.

[mtraininjax]

What makes or breaks a city isn't a one time event, but rather the dynamics of the people and the workforce within the city.  The city must attract the right work force for the economy it is trying to build, and then everything else takes a backseat in importance to firms within that type of economy.

I agree, a bankruptcy is not a make or break issue, but the uncertainty is a problem and businesses would rather have certainty than uncertainty. How does the city attract the right work force, if the businesses are not here because the work force is uneducated for the work product of the business? The Chamber is supposed to be the rah-rah economic engine, but that is a topic for another board!

Because our educated youth are where they are, we attract all those mortgage processing jobs, call centers, and many dead end jobs. 20% of our GDP is based on healthcare, yet the city has no "public/private" partnership to help grow the healthcare sector, which creates permanent jobs and expands our tax base. This should be our future, but the education system is not there, yet. It could be. A growing healthcare sector increases taxes collected and raises all boats in revenue.

Atlanta is a great city, that has its own issues, but bankruptcy is/was not one of them. The article on how they addressed their pension issues was an eye opener for me, I am sure it was for many of our city council as well.  Until we get control of our expenditures in our great city, we will not be able to grow.

[thelakelander]

how is our airport exit ugly?  I can name about 20 "uglier" ones if you would like.  It's a fecking Interstate exit to begin with, what the feck are you looking for?

The exit is pretty ugly, but there are two things worse about it:

1) It's north of the city which means everyone visiting has to drive 95 on the northside through an obviously large ghetto, not a good first impression.

2) When you leave the airport at the first overpass near the Tradeport (on the right) is usually a horrible speed trap, so you're real first impression is actually a speeding ticket.  Then it's the trashy exit with budget motels and outdated service stations, then it's an extended pine forest, then it's an extended ghetto.

First impressions in Jacksonville absolutely suck (at least the airport is clean and nice and not crowded).

Being realistic, your drive on I-95 through town is similar to driving on I-75 through Toledo.

[thelakelander]

Where do you read into Jacksonville even being considered in this article?

We are not named, in fact I don't recall any other place being singled out, but using the writers criteria for Florida cities, I think we score better then most. That said, we are in real danger of losing any remaining edge we might have due to paralysis at the top. Fort Lauderdale has a streetcar project (The Waver) coming up, Sarasota and Miami both have projects on the drawing boards. Tampa's streetcar is the only one in the state that is up and running, however it suffers from Skyway Syndrome with politicians using it as an example of waste... Never mind the $1 Billion in new development attributed to the streetcar.

Perhaps we should research an economic benefit of the Skyway!

I doubt they even view Jacksonville on the same level as Tampa and Miami.  Nevertheless, Tampa has just as many urban neighborhoods as we do and their urban commercial districts are a lot larger (ex. SoHo, Ybor, etc.).  Ybor's 7th Avenue is 10-11 straight blocks of bars, retail and restaurants.  By comparison, King Street has about five continuous commercial blocks to work with and we can't even infill those properly.

They also have the Channel District which has seen a level of urban development we still dream about for LaVilla and Brooklyn.  For those who have not been to the Channel District, envision 1661 scale buildings being nearly every lot in Brooklyn between Park & Riverside Avenue.

Nevertheless, in terms of urbanism, if compared with our peers nationally, all of Florida's major cities outside of the Miami metro, would get a fat "F".

[fsquid]

I guess I'm going to the wrong airports.  I can't think of a single airport exit that give me any good impression.  Mainly because those that live near airports are either ghetto people or rural ones.   Also is there really any good impressions given by the side of the interstate when going through a metropolis?  Again, people with money don't usually live by an interstate.

[avonjax]

Where do you read into Jacksonville even being considered in this article?

We are not named, in fact I don't recall any other place being singled out, but using the writers criteria for Florida cities, I think we score better then most. That said, we are in real danger of losing any remaining edge we might have due to paralysis at the top. Fort Lauderdale has a streetcar project (The Waver) coming up, Sarasota and Miami both have projects on the drawing boards. Tampa's streetcar is the only one in the state that is up and running, however it suffers from Skyway Syndrome with politicians using it as an example of waste... Never mind the $1 Billion in new development attributed to the streetcar.

Perhaps we should research an economic benefit of the Skyway!

I doubt they even view Jacksonville on the same level as Tampa and Miami.  Nevertheless, Tampa has just as many urban neighborhoods as we do and their urban commercial districts are a lot larger (ex. SoHo, Ybor, etc.).  Ybor's 7th Avenue is 10-11 straight blocks of bars, retail and restaurants.  By comparison, King Street has about five continuous commercial blocks to work with and we can't even infill those properly.

They also have the Channel District which has seen a level of urban development we still dream about for LaVilla and Brooklyn.  For those who have not been to the Channel District, envision 1661 scale buildings being nearly every lot in Brooklyn between Park & Riverside Avenue.

Nevertheless, in terms of urbanism, if compared with our peers nationally, all of Florida's major cities outside of the Miami metro, would get a fat "F".

If we could duplicate the Channelside idea in Brooklyn it would be a real plus for Jacksonville. I love that area of Tampa.

[CG7]

Nevertheless, Tampa has just as many urban neighborhoods as we do

Tampa may have as many, but comparing the overall neighborhoods of Riverside/Avondale, and San Marco-connected by the bridges is not even close. The beauty of R/A and San Marco is heads and shoulders above anything in Tampa.

[Adam W]

Nevertheless, Tampa has just as many urban neighborhoods as we do

Tampa may have as many, but comparing the overall neighborhoods of Riverside/Avondale, and San Marco-connected by the bridges is not even close. The beauty of R/A and San Marco is heads and shoulders above anything in Tampa.

I don't know about that -  I used to live in Hyde Park and I think it comes close. But that's just my opinion.

[thelakelander]

No doubt, Riverside and San Marco are nice but they aren't unique to the State of Florida.  Tampa has comparable intown neighborhoods as well because both cities boomed around the same time.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Bayshore sure is pretty nice!

[thelakelander]

Bayshore is nice.  I always thought it would be cool if there was someway to directly connect the riverfront promenade at St. Vincent's from King Street to Memorial Park and the Northbank Riverwalk.  However, Mayor Peyton was flamed when he considered extending the Riverwalk to Memorial Park.

[Adam W]

Bayshore is nice.  I always thought it would be cool if there was someway to directly connect the riverfront promenade at St. Vincent's from King Street to Memorial Park and the Northbank Riverwalk.  However, Mayor Peyton was flamed when he considered extending the Riverwalk to Memorial Park.

The northbank riverwalk was one of the best things to happen to Jax in the past 10 years. It's a shame Peyton wasn't able to connect/extend it... that would've been just amazing. Maybe that's something for the future?

[CG7]

I have been toTampa literally hundreds of times (I used to work out of Tampa a couple days a week for years), and you are obviously not very familiar with R/A because I take my work cohorts from Tampa there whenever possible, and they along with myself recognize the beauty of the different styles of homes, the marriage of the neighborhood and the river along with the trees... never ever underestimate the beauty of the streets and parks in R/A. The area is also very unique to Florida, as well as anywhere when you combine the asthestics of the river the multitude of the housing styles, and the TREES!! But that is just my opinion as someone who have seen both areas extensively.

[thelakelander]

Yes, I'm pretty familiar with R/A, about to head over there in another hour or so, and I grew up just outside of Tampa.  We'll have to agree to disagree on this one but neighborhoods like Hyde Park offer just as much in terms of amenities for urban living in Florida.  From my view, the differences between Jacksonville and Tampa's best urban neighborhoods aren't that great (when excluding new urban infill and size of entertainment clusters) and that's not a knock on either community.  I think where urban Jax really excels is the bones of forgotten districts like the entire Northside.  There's some real gems and interesting spaces across this city that are being completely ignored.