JSO Shoots Unarmed Fleeing Man in the Back

[JaxNative68]

Hey, I said they both were at fault and was pointing out the fact that an out of control car is just as deadly to other motorists and pedestrians as a few stray bullets.  Also, it could be more than replacing sod if you or one of your family members happen to in your yard or adjacent to the street walking Fido and gets struck by this car.  Folks need to stop thinking like Eddie Farrah and looking for false injustices and take responsibility for themselves and admit they are wrong when they have knowingly broken the law.  Chris, maybe you represent the drug dealer and sue the city and win him a few million dollars.  I'm sure you could find a constitutional right why he should be able to disobey the traffic laws, deal illegal drugs and flee the police; and you could get 40% of the settlement.

A vehicle is not the same thing as flying bullets, and even if you want to engage in "what if's" and place pedestrians on the street getting run over by a car, they at least have a chance to hear cars coming and have time to get out of the way, when the same isn't true with bullets. The car-as-deadly-weapon thing is mainly a legal fiction, in the real world a car is a car and flying bullets are flying bullets, and there is really very little question as to which is more dangerous.

Case in point; Why is there no FBI background check needed to get a driver's license like there is to get a weapons permit? Why is there no statutory waiting period to buy a car like there is to buy a gun? Gimme a break...they are not the same thing and you know it. JSO clearly created the larger danger to the public in this situation.

Frogs are frogs and fish is fish.  Just like interpretations and opinions.

Well thank you for finally acknowledging the point then...

I don't think I acknowledged your point, but I'm glad you feel better about it.  You might want to have your self esteam checked, it might help with your always having to be right complex.

by the way, FBI background checks don't stop people from buying guns.  The majority of crimes commited with guns are done so with ones that are illegally owned and stolen.  Not mention the amount of drivers on the road without driver's licenses, suspended driver's licenses and revoked driver's licenses.  Having a federal permit for a gun doesn't lower the gun crime stats that much, and it certainly wouldn't put a dent in auto deaths.

[Dog Walker]

"An armed society is a polite society." - Robert Heinlein

[Jaxson]

butthurt?  LOL!

[Springfielder]

A motor vehicle can indeed become a deadly weapon, it's not legal fiction. People have intentionally aimed their vehicles at civilians and law enforcement. When a person does so, the vehicle in fact, becomes a deadly weapon.

If you recall, (I believe it was this past year, maybe the previous) a male was intentionally backing into a police car, and even though he was ordered to stop, he didn't and did it again...the officer ended up shooting and killing the man. The SAO investigated and found it to be a justified shooting, since there was a civilian in the police unit.

Or perhaps one would recall (this was not here in Florida) when a woman ran over her husband with her car and killed him. Again...the vehicle was the deadly weapon and she was convicted.

There's many other cases...those just came to mind...but there's no doubt that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon.

[BridgeTroll]

From the original article...

The driver went through two homeowners' yards and then backed into a JSO cruiser, police said.

[Overstreet]

Case in point; Why is there no FBI background check needed to get a driver's license like there is to get a weapons permit? Why is there no statutory waiting period to buy a car like there is to buy a gun? Gimme a break...

"Gimme a break",  OK we'll grant that you are not a well versed shooter. 

     a. Weapons permit?  You do not need a "weapons permit" in Florida to by a firearm, knife, sword, cross bow, long bow, arrow, sling shot, spear gun, Hawaiian sling, club, etc.

     b. The only thing close to it is a "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License" which is only required to carry it concealed on your person.

     c. Statuary waiting periods apply to hand guns but not all guns. You can buy a long gun without a waiting period.

     d. NICS checks prevent felons and others from purchasing a fire arm from a FFL. It does not prevent private sales.



Driver's license has a check built in for a series of offenses like DUI, repeated citations, Vehicular homicide, child support delinquency. Usually noted in suspensions due to......etc.

[ChriswUfGator]

Case in point; Why is there no FBI background check needed to get a driver's license like there is to get a weapons permit? Why is there no statutory waiting period to buy a car like there is to buy a gun? Gimme a break...

"Gimme a break",  OK we'll grant that you are not a well versed shooter.  

    a. Weapons permit?  You do not need a "weapons permit" in Florida to by a firearm, knife, sword, cross bow, long bow, arrow, sling shot, spear gun, Hawaiian sling, club, etc.

    b. The only thing close to it is a "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License" which is only required to carry it concealed on your person.

    c. Statuary waiting periods apply to hand guns but not all guns. You can buy a long gun without a waiting period.

    d. NICS checks prevent felons and others from purchasing a fire arm from a FFL. It does not prevent private sales.



Driver's license has a check built in for a series of offenses like DUI, repeated citations, Vehicular homicide, child support delinquency. Usually noted in suspensions due to......etc.

I have a CCW permit and am an experienced shooter. You would need a permit to carry a firearm in someone else's residential neighborhood in Florida, no? Last I checked open carry is impermissible for the general public. The comparison was between a speeding car and stray rounds in a residential neighborhood being equally dangerous was flawed, hence my comparison regarding why there aren't such statutory restrictions on buying a car. Also you're making a false comparison, I was referring to the legal differences between a gun and a car. You can buy a car without any rudimentary check at all. And speaking of private sales, what would you say there are more of, private sales of guns or cars? All those guys selling cars on craigslist are going to check insurance and your drivers license before taking your cash? 12 of one and a dozen of the other. Point is that the law plainly recognizes which is the more dangerous instrumentality. If the two are just as inherently dangerous then why is driving my car down a public street not treated as open carry? Where is the statute banning felons from owning vehicles? (I'd guess a lot of crimes involve a car as transport to/from the scene wouldn't you think?) The whole comparison is ludicrous, multiple stray rounds flying through a residential neighborhood is not the same thing as a car speeding.

[ChriswUfGator]

A motor vehicle can indeed become a deadly weapon, it's not legal fiction. People have intentionally aimed their vehicles at civilians and law enforcement. When a person does so, the vehicle in fact, becomes a deadly weapon.

If you recall, (I believe it was this past year, maybe the previous) a male was intentionally backing into a police car, and even though he was ordered to stop, he didn't and did it again...the officer ended up shooting and killing the man. The SAO investigated and found it to be a justified shooting, since there was a civilian in the police unit.

Or perhaps one would recall (this was not here in Florida) when a woman ran over her husband with her car and killed him. Again...the vehicle was the deadly weapon and she was convicted.

There's many other cases...those just came to mind...but there's no doubt that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon.

Legal fiction just refers to something the law deems meets some certain criteria when outside of the legal context it really doesn't. I was just trying to point out that anything heavier than a feather pillow can satisfy the deadly weapon element of the agg assault statute if some idiot decides to start clobbering people with it. A golf club, a lawn mower, a car, even a plain old rock, a baseball bat, a frying pan, hell you name it, anything at all can be legally considered a deadly weapon even though out in the real world we all know none of these items are as inherently lethal as rounds from a 38. The law just treats them that way under certain circumstances. That's what I meant when I said legal fiction.

[JaxNative68]

somehow my reply to this got entered ahead of your comment.

[ChriswUfGator]

somehow my reply to this got entered ahead of your comment.

I was trying to fix a spelling error and wound up deleting the whole post by accident. Had to repost.

iPad touchscreen is a pain for typing.

[JaxNative68]

you must be one of the few that care about correct spelling on message boards any more.  the tech gadgets and new means of communication are killing the English language and the ability to spell.

Just wait until you have to type on that thing outside in 98 degree weather.  It’s a great gadget, but the heat sensitive touch screen can be a pain at times (especially when typing).

[ChriswUfGator]

Yeah the spell check is what kills me the most on this stupid thing, it changes words it doesn't recognize into two smaller words, or else it adds a space in the middle of the word. I have to spell check the spell checker constantly!

When I was in grade school the only thing we did on the computers was play Oregon trail and sometimes use bank street writer, lol. Actually learned to type on a typewriter. I agree writing has gone downhill noticeably in the newer generations since spellcheck became a substitute for an actual vocabulary.

[Tamara-B]

Chris, the suspect is not dead. See updated news story.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/26203064/detail.html

He's not dead only because the officer was such a bad shot that most of the 8 rounds he fired at the guy's back missed. So I'll ask this again, are you saying it's the citizen's fault the officer missed?

How the hell do you get to be a police officer with crappy shooting techniques?

[NotNow]

Tamara,

Sometime over the next seven years or so, have someone by complete surprise give you the command to go...then participate in a high speed vehicle pursuit for a few miles.  After the suspect rams your car and flees on foot, jump out in the middle of the night in an unfamiliar neigborhood, chase the suspect through backyards, kiddie pools, clotheslines, and various fences.  Then, when he turns and reaches into his pants....and you are convinced that the suspect is about to attempt to hurt you..shoot the moving target at twenty yards.  Let me know how your marksmanship measures up.

Again, until you have walked a mile in those shoes...

[Tamara-B]

Tamara,

Sometime over the next seven years or so, have someone by complete surprise give you the command to go...then participate in a high speed vehicle pursuit for a few miles.  After the suspect rams your car and flees on foot, jump out in the middle of the night in an unfamiliar neigborhood, chase the suspect through backyards, kiddie pools, clotheslines, and various fences.  Then, when he turns and reaches into his pants....and you are convinced that the suspect is about to attempt to hurt you..shoot the moving target at twenty yards.  Let me know how your marksmanship measures up.

Again, until you have walked a mile in those shoes...

Um..still doesn't answer my question.