Live blogging the vote for 2012-296, human rights ordinance.

[Timkin]

New thought if you cannot complete a simple sentence without losing your breath you may be too old to be in a chair on the CC meeting.


Meeting adjourned. Disappointing council member interaction today. Disappointing allotment of time for comments and there were zero questions.

Kim Daniels may have said it best today. "This is America."
Yes, ma'am. This is indeed America which is why it is our right and duty to uphold the Declaration of Indpendence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Interesting that Ms. Daniels would say that.


This is America.  A bill like this should pass without reservation amongst a group of TRULY unbiased people.

Another one of those " Only in Jacksonville, Florida"  to add to a list long enough to create a whole series of books.

[AshleyLauren]

I suggest reviewing the attached link. It gives another perspective of some clergy's view of the issue, in this case the subject of gay marriage in Washington State.

This issue and the discussion surrounding it is the pinnacle of embarrassment for the city of Jacksonville.

http://www.pubtheo.com/page.asp?PID=1746

Yes, some clergy's have spoken up in the same manner. However, none of them spoke today. I don't believe I have heard any of them since the first two weeks of conversation.

[AshleyLauren]

More proof how far behind we are:
While watching a documentary about Penn State for a Sociology class about "The Gendered Society" the documentary states that Penn State added sexual orientation to their school Anti-Discriminatory clause in 1992. Before this clause was added and at the time they had a narcissistic women's basketball coach known to rip scholarships and relieve women from her team for being a lesbian. And we all know about Joe Paterno. Perhaps, the GLBT community is not the problem.

[RexMontana]

The actions, or I should say the inaction, of our City Council members on this issue have made it very clear what needs to be done - they should be voted out of office. It's amazing to me that these people that we elected to represent us in our city do not have the ability to see what is needed for the good of this great city of ours. What really surprises me is that there is no real leadership on the City Council. No one has stood up to address the ones that oppose this ordinance to help them understand why this kind of legislation is so vitally needed for the good of everyone. I still can't believe that in this day and age there are still people that think it is alright to discriminate against others. I wonder if anyone has considered how much revenue the LGBT community has contributed to the Jacksonville economy. Surely those individuals have assisted many businesses with their support. Perhaps an economic boycott of some of those businesses, especially those of the current City Council members might be a good way to show the impact of our LGBT citizens.

[finehoe]

More proof how far behind we are:

Washington DC enacted theirs in 1973!

[Timkin]

The actions, or I should say the inaction, of our City Council members on this issue have made it very clear what needs to be done - they should be voted out of office. It's amazing to me that these people that we elected to represent us in our city do not have the ability to see what is needed for the good of this great city of ours. What really surprises me is that there is no real leadership on the City Council. No one has stood up to address the ones that oppose this ordinance to help them understand why this kind of legislation is so vitally needed for the good of everyone. I still can't believe that in this day and age there are still people that think it is alright to discriminate against others.

What I find sad is that we cannot remove these individuals before another election cycle. Seems they are somehow in violation. For example. CM Redman asking a Woman, Do you think you are a man or a woman? Or Ms. Daniels ridiculous (at best ) rant ( too many examples to list)   

Why does this become a council issue in the first place?  Why can it not go to the voters?

Why did Washington enact this in 1973  and 39 years  the people of Jacksonville ,Fl are begging to an incompetent and biased council, for our RIGHTS ( That is not to ask for rights to do anything that is in violation of common laws, just to be treated equally ) and this group  gets to decide? SERIOUSLY? Something is very wrong with this picture

I know nothing about  City Council and I am certain I could go to work today and do a more effective job than some of our esteemed members.   I don't think we should have to wait for them to term out or be voted out.   Seems these individuals some how crossed a line in this process.

Do we have anyone who can verify this?

[finehoe]

Younger MJ readers might not be aware of the events of 1977 when the Miami City Council passed their human rights ordinance:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/14/2589758/when-miami-dade-was-culture-war.html

Be careful what you wish for on putting peoples rights up for a popular vote.

[Tacachale]

^This goes to the council because it's their job. Their duty is to represent us and pass the legislation. Legislating by referendum is usually a bad idea. The council needs to cowboy up and pass this thing.

[AshleyLauren]

Younger MJ readers might not be aware of the events of 1977 when the Miami City Council passed their human rights ordinance:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/14/2589758/when-miami-dade-was-culture-war.html

Be careful what you wish for on putting peoples rights up for a popular vote.

Wow, thanks for sharing the article. I think there is a moment when every young adult is forced to become a realist and this bill may have been the thing to do it for me.

It's terrible. Timkin I have no idea the ins and outs either, but I would love to know if you find the answer first.

[Timkin]

Jimmy would be the one who might be able to answer that.  I have no clue.

Our City Council is failing us, because they are biased.  They are putting their personal religious convictions into the mix on an issue they should NOT be allowed to do.

But then , this is not the only way they are failing us and I think many would concur.  I am also deeply disappointed that Mayor Brown does not seem to stand on the side of many who voted him in , and are probably going to live to regret that as well.    Personally , I want to see the best in everyone.  This particular bill has shown all of Jacksonville that elected members cannot separate personal from business.  This does not affect them, it affects us.   

THEIR GOD  did not give them the right to judge.... and they most certainly ARE judging.

[Tacachale]

There are many on the council who are for this, and a few who are against it who are otherwise good council members. Hard as it is I try to keep that in mind.

Honestly, a big part of the problem is we have too many new members with no political background. We've got a bunch of trigger-shy greenhorns in the saddle who aren't used to dealing with backlash. As such they get scared on items like this, which is really pretty standard stuff, and inaction is the default.

Hopefully the fencesitters will toughen up when this comes to a vote.

And of course, this would have been a lot easier if Alvin had endorsed it as he said he would.

[Timkin]

And of course, this would have been a lot easier if Alvin had endorsed it as he said he would.

^ agreed.  It would seem his administration is scrambling and learning (or maybe not) as they go.   So far I am deeply disappointed.

[vicupstate]

And of course, this would have been a lot easier if Alvin had endorsed it as he said he would.

^ agreed.  It would seem his administration is scrambling and learning (or maybe not) as they go.   So far I am deeply disappointed.

Brown is trying to co-op his opposition by carrying water for them on budget cuts and staying quiet on this issue. 

I have followed politics for a long time, and it is the very rare public official that can hold their original coalition and still pick up support from past opposition.   

John Delaney did it quite well, to such a degree that he had no opposition for re-election despite winning narrowly the first time.  I think Brown is trying to do the same. 

It isn't going to work though,  because the electorate is much more divided than during Delaney's tenure, and because he is viewed as a local version of Obama, therefore he can't be trusted by the mtrains of the city. 

He isn't 'one of them' and he never will be.  The sooner he realizes that, and starts to 'dance with those that brought him' the better off he will be.

[Tacachale]

^People have a far wider range of criticisms than that he's a "local version of Obama". In fact, I don't believe I've heard that one at all.

[simms3]

^^^Agreed with Tacachale.  I think many are disappointed in the actual job he's doing, not that he's a black democrat who may or may not hold the same political views as Obama.

I just can't believe the show that's going on down in Jacksonville.  Again, when you have a very socially conservative black community (albeit Warren Jones wrote the bill), a very conservative redneck community, a socially conservative blue collar workforce that has spent multiple generations in the same city, and then a rapidly growing suburban area with transplants who could care two shits about what goes on "in the city", you're going to get this crap.

Somehow the people of Jacksonville need to be conditioned and trained, because they are still voting council members and mayors in based on political views, social views and how well they "know" the person through church and stuff.  I think that's a difficult task that lies ahead.

To an earlier quote the question isn't what the city has gained economically from the LGBT community, because it's really very small in Jax (and closeted), but rather what the city hasn't gained by not having a large and thriving LGBT community.  Think what wonders it would do the city to have a huge population to turn around neighborhoods, drive up home/land values, spend money on frivolous things, bigger houses, and all because they don't have kids to feed, etc etc.  That's what the city has missed out on because of issues such as this holding it back from being attractive to the LGBT community.