When did it all go wrong?

[cityimrov]

I personally like the AAWU (http://www.shanghairanking.com/) ranking better but it's limited to research.  It also doesn't count business, law, and other areas where paper research or Nobel prizes don't matter as much.  Ranking is one of those things which is more of an art than a science.  If any ranking put's UF on top and Harvard on 50 for law, it would be a obvious sign something is wrong with the ranking.  So most rankings put Harvard on the top and see how other schools compare to that gold standard.

As for UNF, I'm not quite as optimistic on it's success.  Will it be a positive impact to the Jacksonville area? Of course!  Can it be the best university it can be?  I doubt it.  UNF has a lot of holes it needs to fix before it can make it to that level. 

Before we start going into the problems of Atlanta and why the top 10 universities are in the top 10 and how cities can manage to keep their graduates like some areas have done very well, I think I can answer a few of simms questions about Jacksonville & Atlanta.

Now back to my earlier point...how does a city like Atlanta, with bad soil,

"No problem, we'll just find smart people to find ways to make bad soil into good."

no water,

"No problem, we'll get our top scientists and researchers to overcome it."

difficult geography,

"No problem, if we solved the water issue, we can figure this out."

and basically everything working against it, turn into the most thriving metropolis in the South

"There's no problem that we can't overcome if we work together!"

and a city like Jacksonville, with waterways, hundreds of years of history, access to tons of resources, and an excellent location on the Eastern Seaboard (virtually protected from hurricanes, too) fall behind nearly all of its peers?

"Why do we need to spend money on redundant stuff?  It's just waste." 

Eventually, the good water will run out, the nice river will be bad, and all the natural advantages will end.  The logical thing to do is to invest beforehand to figure out solution to problems before they become problems.  What Jacksonville did was wait till the end and run around like a headless chicken panicking the world was ending.  If it didn't do that, it pretended it was smarter than it actually was. 

Offshore Nuclear Power Plant.  I have more faith in land lock Atlanta successfully pulling that off than Jacksonville any day.  At least Atlanta built a nuclear reactor!  They have a history in solving problems like this.  In this bet, Jacksonville had no chance.

[Adam W]

If any ranking put's UF on top and Harvard on 50 for law, it would be a obvious sign something is wrong with the ranking.  So most rankings put Harvard on the top and see how other schools compare to that gold standard.

Yale is generally regarded as the #1 law school in the USA. Generally #2 switches between Harvard and Stanford.

[Tacachale]

As for UNF, I'm not quite as optimistic on it's success.  Will it be a positive impact to the Jacksonville area? Of course!  Can it be the best university it can be?  I doubt it.  UNF has a lot of holes it needs to fix before it can make it to that level. 

Again, it depends on what you mean by "success". UNF will never be yet another enormous, research-heavy college that offers every major (and football). Florida has enough of those already - and that's part of the problem. What UNF does offer is a focus on teaching quality, smaller class sizes, and professor interaction. We've also targeted specific programs for growth, with emphasis on the significant industries in the community. These are things that are far too rare in the SUS and something that truly sets UNF apart, far more so than if we committed ourselves to the "grow real big and get football" model.

What distinguishes a great university system like North Carolina isn't just the flagship universities (though it has among the best), it's the diversity in the system. There, there's a real synergy between the schools and a comprehensive vision behind their growth. That's the key thing missing here.

[simms3]

^^^Well said.  UNF is definitely a tailored school and the students I know/talked to who have attended (several from South Florida) have really enjoyed it and have enjoyed the area for its convenience to everything.

It seems like UNF follows a precise plan that is updated every 5-10 years, and it seems to be on a growth track.  Lots of big local support.  The school I have always thought could do more for itself than it does (and I have been on the record with this thought before) is JU.  I know it wants to remain a small private school, but if I were choosing between JU and UNF, there would be no question I would choose the latter for too many reasons to list.  The JU campus itself is such a turnoff to me, and the area is horrid, the programs are only better because they are run in conjuction with other schools, and then you're paying private school tuition for what.

The UNF campus is seeming more and more like a college campus each year; I just wish it were closer to the city.  At least it has a presence at MOCA.

Again, I think it's going to take something like a well-funded university (FL Coastal for instance) to kick start the rebirth of downtown.  NYU moved from the Bronx to Manhattan not too long ago so a major university can make a move mid-career.

[cityimrov]

Again, it depends on what you mean by "success". UNF will never be yet another enormous, research-heavy college that offers every major (and football).  Florida has enough of those already - and that's part of the problem.

Many problems in the world can be solved if you throw money at it.  However, to become a top 10, it requires more then that. 

What UNF does offer is a focus on teaching quality, smaller class sizes, and professor interaction. We've also targeted specific programs for growth, with emphasis on the significant industries in the community. These are things that are far too rare in the SUS and something that truly sets UNF apart, far more so than if we committed ourselves to the "grow real big and get football" model.

With that, I quote what I started this topic with

Jacksonville used to be a leader of business, culture, and wealth.  Now it is a shell of it's former self.  It is now a bottom feeder hunting for scraps that other cities have left behind.

Has the community given up?  Having a university alone and one that teaches what other people have discovered will not save a community.  With only a few exceptions, neither will it propel a community into being a leader of business, culture, and wealth.  It needs to be more than that.  It needs to answer questions the community haven't asked yet. 

As I said before

Eventually, the good water will run out, the nice river will be bad, and all the natural advantages will end.  The logical thing to do is to invest beforehand to figure out solution to problems before they become problems.

If Jacksonville keeps seeking solutions to the problems it will face in the future from outside sources, it will completely loose the chance of being a leader.  It will become nothing more than a former shell of it's self, copying other more successful cities while hoping to just bring one or two of it here so that the community can "feel" like it's a success.  It will become nothing more than a cookie-cutter city with only a few notable discoveries here and there. 

Remember, this place was called the "Jacksonville of the North" not the "Harlem of the South".

[Adam W]

What city is "the Jacksonville of the North?"