To Keep the Faith, Don't Get Analytical

[ronchamblin]

That's right Ben.  Geography is the key to one's god.  And you know, I've always liked guns and bombs, and the females of the species.... human species that is.  So I've been thinking about how much I would have liked to have been born in one of the Muslim countries.  I would be a Muslim.  Then I would have had an excellent opportunity to become a terrorist, and then, if all went like it was supposed to go, that is, if the bomb went off while attached to my body, I would have had my 85 or so virgins of the species in the Muslim heaven. 

[Ocklawaha]

The most enduring challenge to this argument can be put into the form of a question:

- Which god should I believe in?!

- Assuming an intelligent designer does exist, what reason do we have to believe that the intelligent designer is God?

And then, again: -Which God?!

The one in which you cannot prove, does not exist.

...the children ultimately suffer as a consequence of being taught untruths; to rely on a fictional god for guidance,

...And in all of the cosmos, we will never find extraterrestrial life right? You are sure of this how? And you know it is not God? Forget the arguments of 'narrow minded' or '5Th Century' or 'evil religions', where is the evidence that there is no God?

In the universe there are two elements at play, energy and matter. Energy can convert to matter and matter can convert to energy, but there can never be an increase or decrease in either without outside assistance. To suggest that everything around us just happened, exploding out of nothing, would deny the First Law of Thermodynamics. 

I and most of the believers I know would tell you that 'religion' has likely done as much evil as it has good through the century's, but at it's best, religion is man-made. The concept of God as that very point of eternal energy or light. I wasn't there when the world began (though sometimes I feel like it) and as a result can't  “prove” God did it any more then the atheists can't “prove” he didn't. Somewhere at the dawn of time, something happened and the universe was created, and since nothing + nothing = nothing, until someone can provide proof of how this great cosmic 'accident' came along, I'm sticking was God as creator. Now if that disappoints you Ron, let's just say that within 30-50 years, you and I will BOTH know the truth.

Oh and Muslim Heaven? I believe that's 75 virgins Ron.

[Fallen Buckeye]

Ron, your argument is null. For one thing, you seem to assume that faith is only based on a person's upbringing as if he is suspended in a passive, childlike acceptance ad infinitum. However, we know that's untrue for most if not all free people, and it's easily proven by the phenomenon of adult conversion. I, like millions of others, was an adult convert to a faith tradition that has a much different understanding of God (monotheistic) than the tradition I was raised in (polytheistic). An adult has to decide for himself whether to accept the faith (or lack of faith) he was raised in, seek out a new faith, or let himself drift away from the faith of his childhood. What you're saying is actually demeaning the human intellect because you are saying that people cannot think for themselves.

You also talk as if no other cultures in history have the gift of knowledge and reason. Even in the so-called dark ages, people apparently had even knowledge to build beautiful cathedrals that have lasted for centuries and to found universities like Oxford and the University of Bologna. People have had the ability to ponder apparent contradictions and mysteries of religion for millenia, and then like now there were some who would accept and some who would reject. The fact that people can and have rejected religion at any point in time actually refutes your first point that religion is merely a product of culture precisely because it acknowledges that individuals have a choice.

Seeing as you are a book man, you may be interested in reading The Christ Connection by Roy Varghese which talks about how world religions are related to Christianity. I'm at the moment really enjoying St. Augustine's Confessions by which he tells about his own journey from unbelief to sainthood. The language takes a bit to get used to, but you really see the thought processes which he goes through in conversion. Again this is not something that he just does because of his culture. In fact, Christianity had only recently been legitimized in the Roman Empire. At any rate, there may be people giving him directions, but he like everyone else must find his own way in the world.