If Oklahoma City can get a NBA team.......WHY CANT JACKSONVILLE????

[Rynjny]

is there a reason why when they built the arena that they didn't built it to NBA/NHL standard?

[Tacachale]

is there a reason why when they built the arena that they didn't built it to NBA/NHL standard?

It would have been more expensive and there wasn't a pressing reason to build it that size. It was built to accommodate the scale of events that it does host. There are relatively few events that require a substantially bigger venue than that. If, in the future, we attracted an NBA or NHL team they would want a new arena anyway.

[Debbie Thompson]

Speaking as one who has limited disposable income, I appreciate the fact we have so many excellent semi-pro teams here.  One can go to a baseball, basketball or arena football game and actually be able to afford the ticket.  Maybe because I enjoy sports, but am not a huge sports nut, I don't need the NBA/NFL/MLB level of professional play to enjoy the game. 

[aclchampion]

In all this discussion, I have not seen anyone mention our minor league basketball team that has won two championships, all with very low attendance. The Giants didn't have a very long season and the tickets were dirt cheap but media coverage was next to nothing and attendance, from what I saw, was also next to nothing. I agree with many here that this city is just not ready to support an NBA team, no matter how badly the mayor wants it.

[mbwright]

I think the lack of prior mention of the Giants is rather telling.....

[Anti redneck]

Yeah but your Analysis falls flat when one realizes that many... no, in fact, HUGE numbers of folks that attend that mega church are also JAGS season ticket holders.

Are they the club seat ticket holders?  The ones who don't show up for the games.

You might be on to something.

[Anti redneck]

The #1 selling tool is media. It controls our minds, it tells us what we should and should not want. You might think I sound crazy, but you should also think of what I'm saying.

You put enough NBA in people's faces, they're going to start liking it. The media says Jacksonville doesn't have what it takes to hold an NFL team, the people believe it.

Throw some positive media out there, and they're might be more positive results.

[KenFSU]

The #1 selling tool is media. It controls our minds, it tells us what we should and should not want. You might think I sound crazy, but you should also think of what I'm saying.

You put enough NBA in people's faces, they're going to start liking it. The media says Jacksonville doesn't have what it takes to hold an NFL team, the people believe it.

Throw some positive media out there, and they're might be more positive results.

Totally understand what you're saying, but that still doesn't change the fact that the average NBA gate is $1 million per game.

Throw in parking, concessions, and some team clothing purchases at Sportsmania and suddenly we're looking at a very conservative $50 million a year discretionary income committment to make a second professional sport work.

That money has to come from somewhere, preferably from a sizeable population growth.

Otherwise, even if the NBA were to come to Jacksonville, and even if it were a runaway success, it wouldn't be possible without dooming something else. The Jaguars. The Alhambra. The Symphony. The movie theaters. The concert halls. The Sharks. The Suns. Restaurants.

Probably a combination of many of these.

It's not a knock on the city's will or determination of anything to that effect, simply a matter of too little money floating around to make it economically possible, especially with an NFL team in the same market.

[tufsu1]

is there a reason why when they built the arena that they didn't built it to NBA/NHL standard?

it was designed with expansion in mind....add an upper bowl to the west end and the arena would meet the minimum standards (capacity of about 18,000 for games)

[Anti redneck]

The #1 selling tool is media. It controls our minds, it tells us what we should and should not want. You might think I sound crazy, but you should also think of what I'm saying.

You put enough NBA in people's faces, they're going to start liking it. The media says Jacksonville doesn't have what it takes to hold an NFL team, the people believe it.

Throw some positive media out there, and they're might be more positive results.

Totally understand what you're saying, but that still doesn't change the fact that the average NBA gate is $1 million per game.

Throw in parking, concessions, and some team clothing purchases at Sportsmania and suddenly we're looking at a very conservative $50 million a year discretionary income committment to make a second professional sport work.

That money has to come from somewhere, preferably from a sizeable population growth.

Otherwise, even if the NBA were to come to Jacksonville, and even if it were a runaway success, it wouldn't be possible without dooming something else. The Jaguars. The Alhambra. The Symphony. The movie theaters. The concert halls. The Sharks. The Suns. Restaurants.

Probably a combination of many of these.

It's not a knock on the city's will or determination of anything to that effect, simply a matter of too little money floating around to make it economically possible, especially with an NFL team in the same market.

Well it's not like we can go out there right now and compete for an NBA expansion team, let alone move one here. If we got a team tomorrow, it would be set for failure. There are good reasons to why the Jags can't sell, winning being a main reason. Media has the Jags all wrong. However, there are quite a few things Jacksonville has:

An arena still fairly new and easily upgradeable,

A population that could be persuaded to jump the bandwagon,

A downtown that has a beautiful view of the river and much, much potential if marketed and regulated properly (less regulated),

Potential to bring and add jobs to town, some of those workers being basketball fans,

A mayor that just happens to be a basketball fan himself and will hopefully take the steps needed to grow and improve the city enough to attract the eyes of the NBA......


I could go on and on. The potential that this town has is just amazing. I can't believe that politics have kept it from coming alive like it should.

Furthermore, it should not hurt the Symphony, Suns, Sharks, etc. If anything, it should help them. If you are referring to the Alhambra on Beach Blvd., it's too far away from downtown for it to even be messed with. The other theaters should be able to feed off the NBA's business and vice versa. The concert halls? Well I personally think it's time for some new concert halls as it is already, but I still don't believe they would be hurt.

[Ocklawaha]

Some more random probably meaningless numbers....

RANK - TEAM - ANNUAL ATTENDANCE - GAMES - AVERAGE ATTENDANCE

38   Oklahoma City RedHawks   PCL   367,082   67   5,478
48   Jacksonville Suns   SL   354,725   69   5,140   

RANK - TEAM - GAMES - ANNUAL ATTENDANCE - AVERAGE ATTENDANCE
13   Thunder   33   600,699   18,203   
9   Magic   33   623,587   18,896
4   Heat   33   657,855   19,935

[Anti redneck]

Speaking as one who has limited disposable income, I appreciate the fact we have so many excellent semi-pro teams here.  One can go to a baseball, basketball or arena football game and actually be able to afford the ticket.  Maybe because I enjoy sports, but am not a huge sports nut, I don't need the NBA/NFL/MLB level of professional play to enjoy the game.

Debbie, it's a city pride thing. When there is a professional sports team in your own backyard, not only is your team, but your city as well, is competing on a national level. Me? I would love to see more professional sports teams here. I wish the rest of the city shared the same vision.

[I-10east]

I'm not necessarily saying that this is the case with Jax, but I truly believe that some cities don't care much for certain sports.

LA and NFL football is without say.
San Diego originally had two NBA teams, the Rockets (I know, weird right) and the Clippers.
Atlanta originally had the two NHL teams, the Flames, and the Thrashers.

I predict that if Jax gets a NBA team, the first couple of seasons would be okay concerning attendance regardless of team success, then over the years if the team continues to struggle with average or below-average seasons, the fanbase will fall off hard, they would be like ghost; You think that the Jaguars attendance fell off in the lean year of 08, try having a struggling NBA team here for a couple of years. I think alot of folks are being caught up with Memphis's and OKC's early success in those small markets; As someone already eluded to, it's too early to know if they are true NBA cities, a couple of lean years will expose the true diehards from the fakes; Of course most cities' fanbases will fall off a lil' overtime with losing, but the key is not to consistently average a measly number like 7K. I'm personally am not trying to beat down the door for a NBA team in Jax. They aren't gonna expand no time soon anyway hell, they probably have too many teams as it is with the Hornets uncertainty, and Jordan running the Bobcats into the ground.   

[jerry cornwell]

The #1 selling tool is media. It controls our minds, it tells us what we should and should not want. You might think I sound crazy, but you should also think of what I'm saying.

You put enough NBA in people's faces, they're going to start liking it. The media says Jacksonville doesn't have what it takes to hold an NFL team, the people believe it.

Throw some positive media out there, and they're might be more positive results.

Totally understand what you're saying, but that still doesn't change the fact that the average NBA gate is $1 million per game.

Throw in parking, concessions, and some team clothing purchases at Sportsmania and suddenly we're looking at a very conservative $50 million a year discretionary income committment to make a second professional sport work.

That money has to come from somewhere, preferably from a sizeable population growth.

Otherwise, even if the NBA were to come to Jacksonville, and even if it were a runaway success, it wouldn't be possible without dooming something else. The Jaguars. The Alhambra. The Symphony. The movie theaters. The concert halls. The Sharks. The Suns. Restaurants.

Probably a combination of many of these.

It's not a knock on the city's will or determination of anything to that effect, simply a matter of too little money floating around to make it economically possible, especially with an NFL team in the same market.

Well it's not like we can go out there right now and compete for an NBA expansion team, let alone move one here. If we got a team tomorrow, it would be set for failure. There are good reasons to why the Jags can't sell, winning being a main reason. Media has the Jags all wrong. However, there are quite a few things Jacksonville has:

An arena still fairly new and easily upgradeable,

A population that could be persuaded to jump the bandwagon,

A downtown that has a beautiful view of the river and much, much potential if marketed and regulated properly (less regulated),

Potential to bring and add jobs to town, some of those workers being basketball fans,

A mayor that just happens to be a basketball fan himself and will hopefully take the steps needed to grow and improve the city enough to attract the eyes of the NBA......


I could go on and on. The potential that this town has is just amazing. I can't believe that politics have kept it from coming alive like it should.

Furthermore, it should not hurt the Symphony, Suns, Sharks, etc. If anything, it should help them. If you are referring to the Alhambra on Beach Blvd., it's too far away from downtown for it to even be messed with. The other theaters should be able to feed off the NBA's business and vice versa. The concert halls? Well I personally think it's time for some new concert halls as it is already, but I still don't believe they would be hurt.

I agree. I think the future will be brighter for Jacksonville to climb up the ladder for consideration of a NBA franchise.
It seems the NBA or the sports media have strong ideas towards expansion in Europe. Speaking of cities lacking desire for certain sports. But, as Ive been exposed to Europe for a few years, they are rabid for professional basketball!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/638617-nba-expansion-10-cities-in-10-years/page/13
I just have doubts about its practicality.

[Ocklawaha]

I think alot of folks are being caught up with Memphis's and OKC's early success in those small markets;

Market size doesn't seem to dictate fan base, loyalty or tickets sold. Market share for TV commercials is where the big bucks are, in which case we are regressing. According to the Nielson Ratings

NATIONAL TV MARKET SIZE...

NYC is number 1
Los Angeles is number 2, The NFL LA Raiders averaged 44,285 per game in a stadium seating 93,607  fans. As for the Ram's - Raiders etc... If your living in LOS ANGELES, on a typically Mediterranean day, who the hell want's to go watch football?
Tampa is number 14
Miami/FLL is number 16
Orlando is number 19
Raleigh is number 24
Charlotte is number 25
Birmingham is number 39 up one point from last year.
OKLAHOMA CITY is number 44 up one point from last year.
Memphis is number 49
...And Jacksonville is number 50, down one from last year!