What Khan We Expect for the Laura Street Trio?

[ChriswUfGator]

Oh and I just noticed the "nameless faceless property" comment.

Even with my limited knowledge of the hospitality industry, I know that what you're spinning as a positive is actually a negative in this scenario. They're not nameless at all, are they? It's a Hyatt and an Omni. Since you're putting this thing downtown, and competing for convention and game-day business, I think you're underestimating the extent to which that traffic cares about their rewards points and brand consistency.

This thing is a hotel, let me ask you this, who's your target customer?

[KenFSU]

So we're back to square one, which is that there is already insufficient demand to support identical competing uses, so clearly the smart move is to build another one?

Figure out a way to make it affordable housing, it'll fill up.

But what you're proposing, there's no market for.

Could not possibly agree with you more here.

There is already a surpluss of both hotel rooms and high-end housing downtown relative demand.

Makes zero economic sense, at least on the surface, to add any more of either.

You're only going to doom the project from the start and/or do significant damage to the struggling (subsidized) existing locations.

Affordable housing, on the other hand, makes perfect sense.

[acme54321]

Maybe like the Bohemian in Savannah?  I thought the Barnett plan had only a portion of the floors as hotel and the rest were condos/apartments?

We could spend hours discussing the differences between the wharf area in downtown Savannah and the Barnett building in downtown Jacksonville. You'd almost have to be trying to lose money at that location in Savannah. The same hardly holds true here.

Really?

Have you been downtown this decade?

LOL Sarcasm

[vicupstate]

My mental picture of the Hotel aspect was that of an upscale boutique hotel.  Probably 70 rooms or less that caters to business travelers.   For instance when Everbank or Fidelity had out of town upper management guests visiting, they would stay there.  If JEDC had a relocation prospect in town, they would also be staying there. 

Does Jax have anything along those lines now?  Nothing comes right to mind for me.       

[duvaldude08]

So we're back to square one, which is that there is already insufficient demand to support identical competing uses, so clearly the smart move is to build another one?

Figure out a way to make it affordable housing, it'll fill up.

But what you're proposing, there's no market for.

Could not possibly agree with you more here.

There is already a surpluss of both hotel rooms and high-end housing downtown relative demand.

Makes zero economic sense, at least on the surface, to add any more of either.

You're only going to doom the project from the start and/or do significant damage to the struggling (subsidized) existing locations.

Affordable housing, on the other hand, makes perfect sense.

I agree Ken Affordable housing is the only thing that will succeed in this market. The high end condo is dead in this economy and especially in this city. The Brooklyn project is an example of affordable housing that will be for rent. The reason I never moved downtown is because is to expensive. I had 802 sq ft one bedroom apartment with washer and dryer on the southside for 630.00 a month. For 630.00, You MAY get a studio at the Carling that is like maybe 500 SQ. Its just not affordable.

[thelakelander]

Affordable housing in the heart of the Northbank is much more likely to happen with the revamp of a building like the Ashley Tower (now City Place).  However, the structure probably best suited for an affordable housing revamp (City Hall Annex) is the one people want blown to smithereens before the end of the year.

[acme54321]

At the end of the day something needs to be done with these structures, and fast.  At this point any sensible  restoration plan that doesn't drastically alter the historic fabric is good in my book, fiscally sound or not.

[Bativac]

At the end of the day something needs to be done with these structures, and fast.  At this point any sensible  restoration plan that doesn't drastically alter the historic fabric is good in my book, fiscally sound or not.

I'll agree with this. Even if the plan is doomed to failure, if it results in these buildings being restored and ready for use, I'm all for it.

[Timkin]

Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?

just curious.

I'm not Chris, but.....

A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.

I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.

There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.

I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.

I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?

Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?

Not sure why Anti-Redneck replies  Fancy Hotel , Fancy Restaurant. Duh .     Think if this proposal was solid , it would be a reality by now?

[Timkin]

At the end of the day something needs to be done with these structures, and fast.  At this point any sensible  restoration plan that doesn't drastically alter the historic fabric is good in my book, fiscally sound or not.

I would say the same holds true for every Historic Structure we treasure and want to save.

[Anti redneck]

Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?

just curious.

I'm not Chris, but.....

A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.

I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.

There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.

I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.

I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?

Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?

Not sure why Anti-Redneck replies  Fancy Hotel , Fancy Restaurant. Duh .     Think if this proposal was solid , it would be a reality by now?

What were you thinking?

[Timkin]

Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?

just curious.

I'm not Chris, but.....

A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.

I did not have a proposal for the building.  I asked Chris (and everyone else) about suggestions.  You had a suggestion and ended that with Duh.  I don't find fault with your suggestion, but I don't get the necessity to add 'duh' to the end of it.  It is as if I should have known your answer or that your suggestion is so obviously the answer to the problem, some developer in the past should have done this already and we would be looking at a restored trio. I asked a simple question.  It was part of your reply I do not understand.

[Anti redneck]

Sorry. I guess I should've added a JK at the end. But really if you look at the structure, it looks perfect for such a proposal. Whatever Khan has lined up, whether it be investment or to resell the property, I hope it's something good and I hope he does it fast.

[Timkin]

I understand now.  Thank you.  I have no problem with your proposal. If it is the idea that gives us a restored Laura Trio, my hats off to you and all who make it possible.

Other than residential, hotel, or the like, I know of nothing that can occupy that fairly sizable space and make the project viable.

[ChriswUfGator]

The Barnett building could be affordable housing initially, which would be the exact type of generator downtown needs to get the ball rolling so that someday it could support another hotel. This proposal shows a basic misunderstanding of how cities work, and what works in Savannah doesn't apply here, Savannah never turned itself into sprawling suburb, it still has a dense downtown, plus lots of tourist draws, that's a different ball game.

You can't go straight to that, it starts with workers, jobs, places they can afford to live, transportation, and steadily things pop up to serve that population, stores, restaurants etc. Presently there is no demand for what's being proposed here. Downtown is this unique clusterfuck of problems, to make COJ get onboard people have to promise the moon, and so you wind up with what we've got, where nobody who can afford to live downtown actually will, and nobody who would live downtown can afford to.

The solution isn't more of the same.