Replacing chairs and cutting down trees to cost $100k for Hemming Plaza

[thelakelander]

Any new structure of significant size would have its own pilings driven into the river.  This would go for that parking deck site and the current courthouse building sites.

[Steve_Lovett]

the courthouse lot would be the same situation as the Hyatt....did they rebuild/reinforce those pilings when building the hotel?

As I understand:
Hyatt = City Land (historically) - city constructed seawall and filled, for parking and later hotel
Courthouse Parking = County Land (historically) - county constructed parking on pilings.
 

[thelakelander]

^Either way, the Hyatt has pilings driven deep into the ground.  Anything constructed over next door would have to be the same, regardless of the construction of parking on pilings and it won't be cheap.  All the more reason why the future of these sites should be fully vetted before demolishing the structures.  I could definitely see a case, where we spend millions to demolish and then decide the site isn't feasible for whatever new use is cooked up, ultimately leaving us with a few more extra blocks of dead zones.

[tufsu1]

Back to Hemming Plaza...here's a note I received from a neighbor who attended the Urban Core CPAC meeting last night

Last night the UC CPAC approved the UC CPAC Parks Review Committee's Hemming Plaza recommendations: revitalize Hemming Plaza  by  (a) making Hemming more attractive using flower beds and grassy areas; (b) remove tables and chairs and keep benches only; (c) increase police presence with foot patrols; (d) create an area for children and families; (e) stage programmed events at Hemming; and, (f) install bicycles racks to encourage bicyclists to come to Hemming Plaza.  CM Lee's aide attended the UC CPAC meeting and briefed us on the various recommendations to the Ad Hoc Committee Ms. Lee chairs.

he also told me that the City Council Ad Hoc committee is meeting this Wednesday to accept the final report and recommendations.

[tufsu1]

They've run out of money to finish the old federal courthouse?

from the T-U this morning

Later in the afternoon meeting, Brown’s chief of staff, Chris Hand, said work on the old federal courthouse that will house the State Attorney's Office would be bid out in coming months. The bid specifications will allow options on what sort of walkway is proposed, including an elevated one.

Design work on the building is being done by AECOM services and should be completed in about 60 days, after which the bids will go out.

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-04-03/story/councilwoman-pressures-city-chief-judge-duval-courthouse-savings#ixzz1qyllacfw

[Springfield Chicken]

$100,000 to destroy beautiful trees and wreck a nice area is not the way to solve this problem.  Jacksonville can't be the only city to face this issue and I'll bet it's been solved elsewhere with less destructive ideas.  This one is one of the all time dumbest I've ever heard!

[vicupstate]

You can add flowers without taking out the trees, plenty of flowers grow well in shade.

How is taking away the beauty and shade of the tree canopy, going to make families want to drive past the parks in their own neighborhoods, to go to this one?   

Is there some sort of presentation or report that details this plan?  Can MJ post it as a cover story?

[thelakelander]

I just read through the meeting minutes.  The tree canopy removal seems to focus on creating sight lines for security cameras at the expense of the park user's comfortability, based on the meeting minutes.

http://www.coj.net/city-council/council-committees,-boards---commissions/hemming-plaza-subcommittee.aspx

Unless, there is something not mentioned in the minutes, some of the committee's recommendations are the complete opposite of the public survey they conducted.

The Chair announced that the purpose of the meeting was to review and discuss the findings of the Survey Monkey that sought to gauge how visitors to Hemming Plaza felt about the plaza---its potential and shortcomings.   Amy Harrell, Downtown Vision, Inc., who designed the survey, led the review.  Printed copies of the survey had been distributed for the meeting’s attendees to follow.   The preliminary results were from a 6-day period on the websites. The preliminary findings of the survey quantified responses on how often people visited the park (noting those that either lived or worked within 4 blocks of the park and other); when they visit, how long do individuals spend in the park; what do you do when you visit the park? (eat a meal, attend an event, for a meeting, relax, visiting friends, other); what do you like about the park?  The survey’s responses indicated that people wanted to enjoy the park and wanted to feel safe while visiting the park.  Respondents want to see food vendors and family events.  Respondents were not in favor of removing tables and chairs from the park.

660 of the survey’s responses were from individuals who either lived or worked within four blocks of the park, representing 58% of the survey.

Ad Hoc Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - March 21, 2012


Anyway, here are some quotes cut and pasted from various meetings:

The mission of the committee

The Chair reiterated what the objectives of the Committee were: namely, to make Hemming Plaza safe and secure for all who visited the park.   While the focus of the Committee’s work is the park, the homeless in the park is an ancillary issue.  She reviewed  concerns raised at the last Committee meeting.  The Council President is expecting the Committee’s recommendations at the end of March.

Ad Hoc Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - January 19, 2012


Sub-committee members:

Those appointed to the sub-committee are:  Terry Lorrince (Downtown Vision), Jerry Moran (La Cena Ristorante), Chris Warren (Chamber of Commerce), Stephen Dare (Metro Jax), Ron Chamblin (Chamblin Uptown), Sheriff John Rutherford (or a representative), Fred Sarkees (Mental Health Resource Center), Karen Nasrallah, Jacksonville Economic Development Commission), Assistant General Counsel Jason Teal, Mr. Hudson (Bryan Building proprietor), and a Salvation Army representative.

Ad Hoc Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - January 19, 2012


New York City's Bryant Park as an example

Subcommittee Chairman Kelley Boree opened the meeting by stating the focus would be limited to park design and programing. She gave a short presentation showing how Bryant Park in New York City, while much larger than Hemming Plaza, has many similarities. Bryant Park was transformed from a place of crime and drug use to a popular place for families, tourists and city residents. The park was redesigned, removing much of the overgrown bushes and trees that improved sight lines and increased safety.

She suggested similar changes for Hemming Plaza. Because diseased trees need to be removed, a design by HDR shows 60 percent of what a redesigned Hemming Plaza would look like. However, it should be noted that there is currently no funding for this project and that the 60 percent plan is not detailed enough to go out for bid. It suggests a single level plaza that offers better sight lines and removing the fountain on Laura Street. Boree invited suggestions from those in attendance. They included:

 Adding parking to Monroe Street between Hogan and Laura Streets. Also in that area, the bordering streets should be made available to expand the park for special events when needed.

 Better programming of activities in the park.

 Arrange for food trucks to come to the park regularly to offer a variety of non-competing lunch items.

 As to not offer competition to existing businesses, carts that offer Shaved Ice were suggested.

 Once the park is redesigned, local garden clubs could adopt parts of the park to offer landscaping and upkeep.

 Art in the park on a daily basis was suggested. Local artist could create in the park and give demonstrations and lessons at the same time.

 Allow MOCA to use the park as an annex to display statues and other art.

 Movies in the park.

 Amplified bands should be discouraged from performing at night.

 Look for seasonal events like ice skating.

 The current permanent tables, benches and chairs should be removed.

 Offer something to attract those who go to church downtown to come to the park after services.

 There is a need for increased police presence. Some suggested having JSO in the park from 8 a.m. to 9 p.m.

 Offer the stage for afternoon school band performances (quartets mainly).

 Look to include buskers like jugglers and magicians.

 Bring in Expos for bicycle riders and golfers. Let businesses set up booths to draw interest into the park.

 Events should expose people to the parking on the Southbank and encourage them to ride the Skyway to Hemming Plaza.

 Area offices should be encouraged to hold staff meetings in the park.

 Need to find a revenue-generating source for the park.

 Have Dalton Advertising do PSAs once the programming begins.

The need for a stage was discussed. One would be needed but no consensus was reached as to its size or location. However, it was agreed that if the stage was raised too high it would provide a hiding place for vagrants to break the law undetected. A discussion about permanent restrooms resulted in most of the group agreeing that they would attract vagrants and pose a staffing problem.

Ad Hoc Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - January 25, 2012


Topic of Removing Tables, Chairs & Benches

The discussion then turned to the removal of tables and chairs in the park. While some called for the removal of all the tables, chairs and benches and making Hemming Plaza a passive walk through green space, others felt that would limit park usage. It was agreed that the corner near Laura and Duval Streets was often too densely populated with card players and those watching the games. The number of chairs, tables and benches in such a close proximity made that section of the park loud and a problem area.

Boree explained that the Park and Recreation department could not remove the tables, chairs and benches without the approval and direction of the Mayor’s office.

Amy Harrell of DVI proposed that instead of removing benches, that they be moved to the perimeter of the park and face the streets to discourage large groups of people congregating in a small area in the park.

If temporary tables and chairs were to be used as they were in the past, it was estimated that each set of a table and four chairs would cost about $1,000. When DVI did this in the past, there was no charge and the tables and chairs were available from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. There would also be added expense to clean the tables and chairs daily.

Ad Hoc Sub-Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - February 13, 2012


The Subcommittee's Recommendations

The Chair asked for the Subcommittee report that included recommendations to make the park more attractive to office workers and downtown visitors.  The recommendations included conducting both an online and in person use surveys, the removal of distressed trees and replace low growing plants, remove some benches to discourage large groups from congregating in a single area, identified the Northeast portion of the park near Duval and Laura Streets as a problem area and suggested removing tables from that area first, asked for increased police presence, suggested that Downtown Vision handle the assignment of setting up temporary chairs and tables if the permanent ones are removed. Other suggestions included a greater presence by the Hope Team to address homeless issues, increase park programming, and consider hiring a private security company to augment the JSO officers who from time to time have to be called away from Hemming Plaza.

CM Gulliford appreciated the recommendations but suggested actions be more pro-active rather than reactive when considering the park.  He suggested the formation of a “Friends of Hemming Plaza” to help invigorate the park and bring about positive programming to draw new potential users.

Ad Hoc Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - February 15, 2012


Why Close The Park For An Extended Period Of Time?

At the close of the meeting, Lorince suggested that Parks and Recreation consider closing the park for 2 or 3 weeks when the trees, benches, tables and chairs are removed. It will put people on notice that changes are occurring to the park. When reopened, stake holders would be encouraged to recruit at least 50 people a weekday to eat lunch in the park.

Ad Hoc Sub-Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - February 22, 2012


Removing Benches, Tables, and Chairs

The status of removing benches, tables and chairs was brought up. CM Lee read the written “Hemming Plaza Sub-Committee Recommendations” (included in Minutes package). The sub-committee suggested the following:

•   Keep 15 to 20 benches but distribute them throughout the park.

•   Recommended that DVI oversee the utilization and storage of tables and chairs.

•   The moveable tables and chairs would be in the park from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m.

•   Recommended purchasing 30 tables and 100 chairs made of power-coated steel with UV protection.

•   Recommended light-weight furniture for ease of moving and storage.

•   Establish a furniture schedule.

Discussion ensued about the pros and cons of the permanent tables. Pros thought that removing them was an unnecessary expense and that it was a rather drastic move. Those opposing the tables said the tables attract nuisance users, gambling and encourage people to “squat” in one place for long periods of time.

Ad Hoc Committee on Hemming Plaza Meeting Minutes - March 9, 2012


Results of the Committee's Public Survey

The Chair announced that the purpose of the meeting was to review and discuss the findings of the Survey Monkey that sought to gauge how visitors to Hemming Plaza felt about the plaza---its potential and shortcomings.   Amy Harrell, Downtown Vision, Inc., who designed the survey, led the review.  Printed copies of the survey had been distributed for the meeting’s attendees to follow.   The preliminary results were from a 6-day period on the websites. The preliminary findings of the survey quantified responses on how often people visited the park (noting those that either lived or worked within 4 blocks of the park and other); when they visit, how long do individuals spend in the park; what do you do when you visit the park? (eat a meal, attend an event, for a meeting, relax, visiting friends, other); what do you like about the park?  The survey’s responses indicated that people wanted to enjoy the park and wanted to feel safe while visiting the park.  Respondents want to see food vendors and family events.  Respondents were not in favor of removing tables and chairs from the park.

660 of the survey’s responses were from individuals who either lived or worked within four blocks of the park, representing 58% of the survey.

Why are the initial recommendations not aligning with the results of the public survey?  Seems like much of the $100,000 in changes should be spend on programming instead of movable furniture. 

[Tacachale]

^My understanding is that the issue with the trees is that they're reaching the end of their life span and that some are sick, and will have to come down. If they're water oaks that would make sense, as they only live for about 50 or 60 years. From experience I know that removing any large tree is very expensive.

Though I'd think you'd just replace them with longer lived, healthier oaks rather than nothing.

[Debbie Thompson]

That would make too much sense.  What would have made more sense would have been to place longer lived oaks in there 25 or 30 years ago when they planted water oaks to begin with.   Still, the water oaks are not anywhere near 50-60 years old. You could start replacing them gradually, a few at a time, so as not to de-nude the park, if that is necessary.

[thelakelander]

True, regarding sick trees but what I read also talks about making sight lines for security cameras.  It would be good to replace sick trees with new trees because the park's canopy is probably its best amenity.

[thelakelander]

I'm just reading through the short and long term improvement lists now.  This stands out regarding the tree canopy:

Short term section (2012):

Remove distressed trees (20 trees) = $18,000

Long term section (2013):

Remove Remaining Trees (12 trees) = $10,800

[BridgeTroll]

It seems to be missing the... Flatten entire area... replace with asphalt... paint lines for parking... and add automated parking ticket dispensing machines...

Voila!  No more "undesireables" and adds parking for city council members who do not want to walk.  Perhaps they could even fence it in and make it private for the mayor and all city hall employees!

[thelakelander]

If interested, here's the Hemming Plaza short and long term recommendations.

[strider]

That does say 180K a year to maintain a park that is not really a park available to the real public?  And for that 750K of one time expense, we get a park with no trees, only tables and chairs if they actually get put out, but, of course, those bad chess players will be gone for sure.  We might actually be better off as tax payers leveling the thing and letting the council members park there. The park will at least be used then because if this plan is put into effect, the odds are no one will get to use the park. Hey, maybe that's the plan after all, get us so disgusted with the idiotic planning that we let them turn it into another parking lot.