Replacing chairs and cutting down trees to cost $100k for Hemming Plaza

[thelakelander]

^It's definitely been a rough week for DVI.  All three positions regarding Hemming Plaza, food trucks and demolishing the courthouse/courthouse annex without a redevelopment plan are horrible decisions from an urban planning and downtown revitalization standpoint.  All three are positions one would expect an entity with a suburban oriented mindset to recommend.  They would have been better off just skipping the meetings and not taking a position either way.

[duvaldude08]

^It's definitely been a rough week for DVI.  All three positions regarding Hemming Plaza, food trucks and demolishing the courthouse/courthouse annex without a redevelopment plan are horrible decisions from an urban planning and downtown revitalization standpoint.  All three are positions one would expect an entity with a suburban oriented mindset to recommend.

I am sure glad that they are not the ulitmate decision makers in this city our we'd be in serious trouble. I hope the mayors office shoots down everything they come to the table with.

[Tacachale]

I have a lot of respect for DVI and the people involved. I'm very disappointed by this recommendation. "Vision" indeed.

[fsujax]

This is what happens when you have a Board made up of inviduals who aren't experts in the entity they oversee.

[ronchamblin]

Appreciate your drift DD08.  Actually, although it is possible that DVI, or certain persons within it, might disagree with some on the outside of DVI, I must say that DVI overall has had, in my opinion, a very positive affect on the downtown core over recent years.  Somebody or some agency has to do the kind of things they've done, and are doing.  There existence allows me to relate it to the scenario wherein one doesn't value something until it is gone.

If DVI had not been here, doing many things behind the scenes over recent years, you would see a very different downtown core.  DVI attempts to be, in my opinion, sensitive to the pressure of outside influence and the desires of the concerned individuals in the city core.  The vocal opposition to the actions and opinions expressed by DVI is being monitored by DVI I'm sure.  That's what dialogue and debate is all about.     

There are always differences in opinion, some quite different, almost volatile.  Thank goodness we have the opportunity for debate, much of which is offered on this MJ forum, which in my opinion is each year becoming a greater vehicle for gaining consensus and making the right things happen in the Jax city core.

[Steve_Lovett]

^It's definitely been a rough week for DVI.  All three positions regarding Hemming Plaza, food trucks and demolishing the courthouse/courthouse annex without a redevelopment plan are horrible decisions from an urban planning and downtown revitalization standpoint.  All three are positions one would expect an entity with a suburban oriented mindset to recommend.  They would have been better off just skipping the meetings and not taking a position either way.

Ennis - Off topic of this discussion, but how would you feel if there WERE well-conceived plans for the courthouse/annex sites?

[thelakelander]

Steve, to be honest, I personally feel like the courthouse annex would be an ideal property to issue an RFP for a market rate adaptive reuse project.  IMO, the foot print would be suitable for affordable housing and a mix of other uses, including a mix of retail and entertainment oriented uses around outdoor courtyards/malls/plaza at street level.

The courthouse site and the parking lot behind it, makes sense for a vertical/mixed-use convention center, assuming such a project is feasible.

In either event (I won't lose sleep if the buildings aren't preserved), I think its pretty backwards to spend millions demolishing both sites without first having a committed redevelopment plan.  The last thing downtown needs is more abandoned lots (planting sod doesn't make it a park, just look at the shipyards).  Based on the city's history, I feel if these buildings are demolished without really considering anything else, we'll end up with two extra blocks of Northbank land that will sit empty for more than a decade.

[fieldafm]

without first having a committed redevelopment plan

And that includes the bonding capacity to come up with the public side of the money (we all know there are private interests discussing the Hyatt extension portion). 

[fsujax]

Honestly, I don't care if they demolish the courthouse building, but I think the old City Hall building could be reused.

[mtraininjax]

In either event (I won't lose sleep if the buildings aren't preserved), I think its pretty backwards to spend millions demolishing both sites without first having a committed redevelopment plan.  The last thing downtown needs is more abandoned lots (planting sod doesn't make it a park, just look at the shipyards).  Based on the city's history, I feel if these buildings are demolished without really considering anything else, we'll end up with two extra blocks of Northbank land that will sit empty for more than a decade.

Lake, nothing is going to happen for a while. The City stopped all construction in the old Courthouse, so Corey and her group are going to be in the Annex for a while, at least until Brown can find money to continue the build out. Public Defender is already moved to the Godbold building, so that building is now another issue of what to do with it, I believe that one though is on the National Registry of Historic Buildings, having been a pharmacy or some medical building.

The Annex could be used to house other city services that Brown and Hand have been moving back to downtown, after Peyton expanded the locations around town. There is still empty space in City Hall, for that matter, so space for the City is not an issue, but as you rightly pointed out, neither is money for the tear down of old buildings. Maybe Brown will throw out another "Public-Private" initiative for the demolition of the buildings, if they come to that status.

[thelakelander]

They've run out of money to finish the old federal courthouse?

[tufsu1]

This is what happens when you have a Board made up of inviduals who aren't experts in the entity they oversee.

you mean like some other governmental entities in town?

[Steve_Lovett]

Steve, to be honest, I personally feel like the courthouse annex would be an ideal property to issue an RFP for a market rate adaptive reuse project.  IMO, the foot print would be suitable for affordable housing and a mix of other uses, including a mix of retail and entertainment oriented uses around outdoor courtyards/malls/plaza at street level.

The courthouse site and the parking lot behind it, makes sense for a vertical/mixed-use convention center, assuming such a project is feasible.

In either event (I won't lose sleep if the buildings aren't preserved), I think its pretty backwards to spend millions demolishing both sites without first having a committed redevelopment plan.  The last thing downtown needs is more abandoned lots (planting sod doesn't make it a park, just look at the shipyards).  Based on the city's history, I feel if these buildings are demolished without really considering anything else, we'll end up with two extra blocks of Northbank land that will sit empty for more than a decade.

The parking lot behind the courthouse is built on pilings and the river is extremely deep in this location. Based on the necessary structural requirements and ongoing maintenance for a vertical mixed use development/convention center, it may be a less-than-viable proposition economically.

I'd suggest that the city's investment in these sites - as GREAT civic space - may help catalyze the Bay Street district and strengthen the connection between the downtown core and stadium district (both of which are stated objectives of the city).

I wouldn't be in favor of demolishing these buildings just for the sake of demolishing them without a well-conceived long term strategy.  And I think the assumption that the courthouse parking lot can be converted to a high-load structure should be more carefully vetted.

[thelakelander]

^I agree.  I think the entire future of both sites should be fully vetted before demolition of any structure located on them comes up for discussion.  That's basically my main gripe about the situation.  To a degree, its telling that we're having this discussion now.  Frankly, the future of these sites should have been vetted a decade ago.

[tufsu1]

the courthouse lot would be the same situation as the Hyatt....did they rebuild/reinforce those pilings when building the hotel?