Should Gene Smith be the Jacksonville Jaguars General Manager?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators

Football People

[Gators312]

So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators

Football People

Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Yes I am so impressed that out of 5 guys questioned, 2 had Gene in their top 5.   What a solid sample!

2 of 5 guys in the NFL think Gene is doing well....looks about like the percentage you would find on the street here in Jacksonville.

And August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

I'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

[duvaldude08]

So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators

Football People

Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Yes I am so impressed that out of 5 guys questioned, 2 had Gene in their top 5.   What a solid sample!

2 of 5 guys in the NFL think Gene is doing well....looks about like the percentage you would find on the street here in Jacksonville.

And August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

I'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

In 2008...a year after Shack Harris completly the team and we had to gut the roster from the bottm up and start over. Gene Smith had a tall order when he was hired. Our roster was like N.O. after hurriance Katrina. To completly build an ENTIRE football. Lets give you that task and see how well you fair.

[Gators312]

(Miami wasn't taking Alualu at 12)

link?

Can you link showing anyone was interested in Alualu that high?

Wacca (I think) said Alualu would have gone 12 to Miami....I have seen no evidence supporting it, and during the draft everyone on the talking panels were surprised to see him go that high.

Miami wanted more picks that year and were looking to trade out of 12 for more picks, as they expected to get a DL for better value in the lower end of Round 1.

Odrick was injured for the season in Game 1 of his rookie year, and then posted 6.0 sacks last year.

[Gators312]

So we're just making it up that Gene Smith is highly regarded in football circles for his drafting and FA pickups.  That the Jags scouting department is rated in the top 10 by it's peers.  But since the fans (not the real ones mind you  ) know more than football people, let's can him now.

Talent Evaluators

Football People

Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Yes I am so impressed that out of 5 guys questioned, 2 had Gene in their top 5.   What a solid sample!

2 of 5 guys in the NFL think Gene is doing well....looks about like the percentage you would find on the street here in Jacksonville.

And August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

I'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

In 2008...a year after Shack Harris completly the team and we had to gut the roster from the bottm up and start over. Gene Smith had a tall order when he was hired. Our roster was like N.O. after hurriance Katrina. To completly build an ENTIRE football. Lets give you that task and see how well you fair.

So did you guys support Shack Harris up to the end?  Was he a genius up until his firing?  Detroit has done well since he came aboard, No?  Shack was in charge of getting MJD?  Within 3 years on the job he had a team with a 12-4 record and the following year got decimated with injuries or probably would have another winning season.  It's nice to blame the last guy for your shortcomings.... Not saying he didn't deserve to lose his job, but the same arguments you are making for Gene could have been made for Shack.  And Gene got to make the decisions like Jerry Porter, Derrick Harvey, and Quentin Groves.

Since you bring up what I would have done.....I would have built both sides of the line the best I could instead of just building one and not trotted a Rookie QB out --hell any QB out -- to face the kind of beat downs the OL allowed.

Look we should just end this because we aren't getting anywhere.  You won't be convinced that the Jaguars could have done better, and I won't be convinced they are as good as you say they are.  So lets agree to disagree.

The one thing we all can agree on is we want the Jaguars to win.   Hopefully that is sooner rather than later.

[copperfiend]

And Gene got to make the decisions like Jerry Porter, Derrick Harvey, and Quentin Groves.

Based on what? Harris still had final say when those moves were made.

[duvaldude08]

And Gene got to make the decisions like Jerry Porter, Derrick Harvey, and Quentin Groves.

Based on what? Harris still had final say when those moves were made.

Agreed. That was all Shack Harris. Gene had nothing to do with those.

[copperfiend]

Can you link showing anyone was interested in Alualu that high?

Wacca (I think) said Alualu would have gone 12 to Miami....I have seen no evidence supporting it, and during the draft everyone on the talking panels were surprised to see him go that high.

Miami wanted more picks that year and were looking to trade out of 12 for more picks, as they expected to get a DL for better value in the lower end of Round 1.

Odrick was injured for the season in Game 1 of his rookie year, and then posted 6.0 sacks last year.

Vic Ketchman wrote right after the draft in 2010, that the Dolphins were in pursuit of Alualu. The Jaguars did not feel they could trade down and still get him.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Is this evidence really supposed to be convincing?

Nothing is more convincing than the scoreboard.  That we agree upon.  These just happened to be 2 articles that I've read somewhat recently to defend my position. 

Are there any articles that state the contrary?  (Please don't go Bleacher Report & SB Nation)

And August of 2010 Bill Polian was impressed with Gene Smith.....Wow what solid evidence once again.  Who is Polian working for right now?

Really?  The same Bill Polian that has been lauded for his drafting.  The colts went full blown Re-Do and canned him.  How long did it take for him to find another job?

I'm not arguing to fire him today, I'm more arguing with you teal kool aid drinkers who think he is just the bees knees.

He has had control of personnel since 2008, and the results are mediocre.

Bees Knees?  Puttin' on the Ritz didn't want any part of that?  Still doin' tha Charleston?   

I base my opinion off of the hand he's been dealt.  Do you remember any of our draft picks pre-Gene?  They weren't exactly top of the class.  I've stated ad nauseum that he's building the foundation, and usually they aren't very pretty, but when done correctly, they're extremely stable and you can build really flashy house on top of them - but it takes time.  Apparently more time than most are willing to concede.

The results in the W/L column are mediocre, I'm not disagreeing with you about that, but I see improvement of the talent level on the field, which is a solid indicator that will eventually lead to more Ws than Ls.

[Dapperdan]

Wasn't Gene on Shack Harris's scout team? Gene wasn't just hired out of the blue. He was working in the background before. He had his part in some of those awful draft choices by being a scout and telling Shack who we should and should not draft.

[I-10east]

Are you for real? Tarp covered stands and even though we managed to "sell out" the games, the stands were still empty, for TV purposes. Get real, we need to pull off the tarps to really have a sell out.

You sound like Mike Florio or someone who doesn't know crap about Jax. This fairytale concerning a long sustained 73K people at Everbank anytime soon is asinine. Hypothetically, even if yalls' mancrush was here, and he sold out 73K, how long would you think that would last, forever? By your logic, a Soldier Field crowd wouldn't be enough. An untarped Everbank Field is way to big for this market, and you know it. The biggest mistake this city did was let that dumb 'cocktail party' dictate the size of that stadium; Far as I'm concerning if 70K(including temporary bleacher seating) wasn't enough at Everbank for the Fla/Ga game, then let they asses go back to Athens, and G-ville to play games; It's not much of a decision, A NFL team vs one college game!

[mtraininjax]

You sound like Mike Florio or someone who doesn't know crap about Jax. This fairytale concerning a long sustained 73K people at Everbank anytime soon is asinine. Hypothetically, even if yalls' mancrush was here, and he sold out 73K, how long would you think that would last, forever? By your logic, a Soldier Field crowd wouldn't be enough. An untarped Everbank Field is way to big for this market, and you know it. The biggest mistake this city did was let that dumb 'cocktail party' dictate the size of that stadium; Far as I'm concerning if 70K(including temporary bleacher seating) wasn't enough at Everbank for the Fla/Ga game, then let they asses go back to Athens, and G-ville to play games; It's not much of a decision, A NFL team vs one college game!

The NFL is a business, plain and simple. TT could have raised the profile of the team and the city, as he did in Denver. He would have been the greatest character player since Boselli, period. So think beyond football and think of our great city.

An untarped Everbank is possible, we did it in the late 90s, we can do it again, it takes winning.

Gene Smith could not find a winning team with both his hands. His tenure is tied to that of Del Rio, and for that, he should have been fired along with JDR. Gene Smith will be forever rebuilding in his brain and for that reason alone, he will not take us to the playoffs.

[mtraininjax]

Wasn't Gene on Shack Harris's scout team? Gene wasn't just hired out of the blue. He was working in the background before. He had his part in some of those awful draft choices by being a scout and telling Shack who we should and should not draft.

+1

Gene Smith reaks of the old, I say clean house and start over. Too late for this year, but there is NEXT YEAR, but then we've been saying that for so long, its not cliche anymore, its just part of who the Jags have become.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

MTrain - I can't tell for sure whether they are actual or tickets sold.  Either way, should we really be doing better than Chicago?

This article by Frennette, comparing us to the Saints and Packers, is the hope of all of us teal-glasses wearing fans.  The similarities are enough to merit consideration that it can happen here.  The other thing everyone keeps conveniently forgetting is that we have a new coach in place.  I don't know how you can quantify the coaching over the talent without taking all as a whole, so whatever you have thought of Gene and his picks, it doesn't apply anymore.  There's (long overdue) new blood on the sidelines. 

Whoever asked the Shack Harris question.  After his 3rd 1st round bust in Matt Jones, no, I wasn't on his side.  You say it's convenient to blame the last guy, but he was the reason that we're starting from scratch, so let's call a spade a spade. 

On February 12, 2009, the Detroit Lions officially named Harris as Senior Personnel Executive. Lions General Manager Martin Mayhew has a long history with Harris, and indicated he was the only individual who was offered the job. Harris will assist in all areas of player personnel in an advisory role.[4]

Doesn't sound like a glowing recommendation to me.  Just a guy helping a guy out.  If he had been 'advising' instead of 'decision making' her, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

[copperfiend]

An untarped Everbank is possible, we did it in the late 90s, we can do it again, it takes winning.

Actually the late 90's is when attendance started to fall. In 1999, capacity was in the 80% range.

Gene Smith could not find a winning team with both his hands. His tenure is tied to that of Del Rio, and for that, he should have been fired along with JDR. Gene Smith will be forever rebuilding in his brain and for that reason alone, he will not take us to the playoffs.

He inherited Del Rio in 2009. He is in no way tied to him.