So what's your vision of what Jacksonville could be?

[Anti redneck]

For better or worse, I'm of the strong opinion that Jacksonville will never reach its full potential with our current population. 95% of the city is just too apathetic, set in their ways, and irreversibly brainwashed/damaged into thinking that we have the city we deserve and that this is the way that "the arm pit of Florida" will always be.

... Jacksonville has long since accepted and even embraced mediocrity. Most residents seem to want little change, and are willing to pay for even less (I still have no idea how the city approved BJP).

I've never seen a city quite like ours. The inferiority/loser complex (further fueled by local media) permeates absolutely everything. Instead of taking pride in our local strengths, we seek validation through shallow milestones like "Cheesecake Factory comes to town," "7/11 is back!" and "Taylor Swift plays at the Arena." Even our NFL franchise, I hate to say, is something we have kind of used to backdoor our way into national notoriety without having to do the actual groundwork as a city to become relevant.

Amen to all that. In the same vein see the lead editorial in today's T-U about the needs of our library system and even the fairly new main library. I am in total agreement that it says a lot about the city when you see a so much hoopla about a convenience chain coming back to town. Oh yeah, that'll improve the quality of life here - like there are not enough Gates, Kangaroos, Dailey's, etc.

I'm not sure I totally agree with our having an inferiority complex or that we embrace mediocrity. What I do believe is probably close: Jacksonville has too small a base of wealth or near-wealth for a city it's size. There is too big a base of lower middle class and lower class for us to be able to afford what would improve our quality of life - like a really good public school system. Because of that, yes, taxes cannot be raised because doing so would really hurt too many residents. Others might grumble but can and would pay up. I hasten to add that being in the lower middle class or less is not shameful and anyone who wants to and does do their job well - even if it's sweeping streets - is well entitled to a sense of pride.

Think about it. Where in town, other than on or near the river, is there a sizable enclave of wealth or near-wealth? Not in Arlington which is a huge area; not on the westside, another huge area; not on the north side.  The population on or near the river just isn't that large compared to the whole.

(Thinking about taxes led me to think about "save our homes," portability and other tax breaks. Who benefit from that the most? The wealthy who have lived in expensive homes for years but pay taxes based on values many years past. The Property Appraiser doesn't even add the allowable 3% a year very often. I'm sure my real estate taxes are close to what is paid by riverfront homeowners close by.)

But the question was what is our vision. Mine is "status quo" unless we improve the school system and begin attracting businesses that will bring in higher paid employees with interests beyond rock concerts, watching cars drive fast and make left-hand turns, and so on. But too many of the powers that be prefer to lay a free almost $300K on one of their own than to make better use of that kind of money - like buying, say, 50,000 new books or computers for the libraries, sprucing up a park, decent lighting downtown, and so on.

I would like to see this group focus on one think in our city to improve and become an advocate for it. Moderator, come up with a list and take votes.

Concurred! Let's take the votes. Time to lose the inferiority image. The saps and Hoganites have ran this city long enough. Think about it, the place being driven into the ground started somewhere. Building it back up could start here and should start now.

[JFman00]

The biggest symbol of the problem to me is that SJTC seems to be the most popular area to live and visit in the area. The 2nd biggest symbol is that the number 3 story on google news for Jacksonville is "Carrabas to open new location in Orange Park".

[cityimrov]

For better or worse, I'm of the strong opinion that Jacksonville will never reach its full potential with our current population. 95% of the city is just too apathetic, set in their ways, and irreversibly brainwashed/damaged into thinking that we have the city we deserve and that this is the way that "the arm pit of Florida" will always be.

... Jacksonville has long since accepted and even embraced mediocrity. Most residents seem to want little change, and are willing to pay for even less (I still have no idea how the city approved BJP).

I've never seen a city quite like ours. The inferiority/loser complex (further fueled by local media) permeates absolutely everything. Instead of taking pride in our local strengths, we seek validation through shallow milestones like "Cheesecake Factory comes to town," "7/11 is back!" and "Taylor Swift plays at the Arena." Even our NFL franchise, I hate to say, is something we have kind of used to backdoor our way into national notoriety without having to do the actual groundwork as a city to become relevant.

Amen to all that. In the same vein see the lead editorial in today's T-U about the needs of our library system and even the fairly new main library. I am in total agreement that it says a lot about the city when you see a so much hoopla about a convenience chain coming back to town. Oh yeah, that'll improve the quality of life here - like there are not enough Gates, Kangaroos, Dailey's, etc.

I'm not sure I totally agree with our having an inferiority complex or that we embrace mediocrity. What I do believe is probably close: Jacksonville has too small a base of wealth or near-wealth for a city it's size. There is too big a base of lower middle class and lower class for us to be able to afford what would improve our quality of life - like a really good public school system. Because of that, yes, taxes cannot be raised because doing so would really hurt too many residents. Others might grumble but can and would pay up. I hasten to add that being in the lower middle class or less is not shameful and anyone who wants to and does do their job well - even if it's sweeping streets - is well entitled to a sense of pride.

Think about it. Where in town, other than on or near the river, is there a sizable enclave of wealth or near-wealth? Not in Arlington which is a huge area; not on the westside, another huge area; not on the north side.  The population on or near the river just isn't that large compared to the whole.

(Thinking about taxes led me to think about "save our homes," portability and other tax breaks. Who benefit from that the most? The wealthy who have lived in expensive homes for years but pay taxes based on values many years past. The Property Appraiser doesn't even add the allowable 3% a year very often. I'm sure my real estate taxes are close to what is paid by riverfront homeowners close by.)

But the question was what is our vision. Mine is "status quo" unless we improve the school system and begin attracting businesses that will bring in higher paid employees with interests beyond rock concerts, watching cars drive fast and make left-hand turns, and so on. But too many of the powers that be prefer to lay a free almost $300K on one of their own than to make better use of that kind of money - like buying, say, 50,000 new books or computers for the libraries, sprucing up a park, decent lighting downtown, and so on.

I would like to see this group focus on one think in our city to improve and become an advocate for it. Moderator, come up with a list and take votes.

Concurred! Let's take the votes. Time to lose the inferiority image. The saps and Hoganites have ran this city long enough. Think about it, the place being driven into the ground started somewhere. Building it back up could start here and should start now.

It's simple, Jacksonville will succeed once it actually does what conservatives always say - work. 

Jacksonville has been in at the other hand of the handout platter for a long time.  So long that the people have forgotten how to work to obtain things.  It, as a city are like those welfare queens people in the media always bash about.  The Navy, the highways, the companies - most of them are in Jacksonville because of what mother nature and the federal government gave it - not because of anything the population did. 

The only major thing the as a population has done so far was beg for them to come to Jacksonville. 

In what way does our population deserve to have a nuclear aircraft carrier?  Is it because of a strong nuclear industry?  Is it because of a strong shipbuilding industry?  Is it because the large amount of nuclear scientists?  Why does Jacksonville deserve a nuclear aircraft carrier other than the fact Mother Nature put the ocean next to it?

A 7-11 or a Cheesecake Factory or a NFL won't save it.  Jacksonville will succeed when it as a city will stop depending so much on others and start doing things for themselves!

[Tacachale]

Estimated median household income in 2009: $46,312 (it was $40,316 in 2000)
Jacksonville:   $46,312
Florida:   $44,736


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Jacksonville-Florida.html#ixzz1q9G6zkGK

It would appear that a citizen of Jacksonville is actually somewhat richer then in most Florida cities.

So why do we have so many tiny cracker box homes? Maybe because of our weather, backyards seem to be filled with campers, fancy BBQ pits, pools, or boats on trailers. You wouldn't see these things in such abundance in Omaha.

Yes, I was going to say this. Florida in general - including Miami - is less wealthy than some other parts of the country, especially the Northeast. However, we have a substantially lower cost of living than many other places, and no state income tax.

Within Florida, the Jacksonville area holds up pretty well, especially when you factor in the surrounding suburban counties.

I think far and away our greatest curse is the inferiority complex. People here are often very down about the city, and there's a pervasive belief that things that work elsewhere won't work or happen here, because we're just different and, well, inferior. You hear this even from people who basically want to help and see the city improve.

Everything else aside, I believe that things improve dramatically when you get a culture of folks who are truly engaged and active and involved. People who really care about their neighborhood and are willing to do something about it. I think we're seeing this more and more in our core neighborhoods, and to me that's a very positive sign for the future.

[Jdog]

KenFSU, you brought up a great point.  The city needs to expand the young demographic (25 to 34 year olds especially).   

The New York Times article linked below is pretty good (it's 2006 but still good). 
I liked the referencing in the article to the importance of internships. 

So I wonder if there is a way for the city to incentivize / encourage local businesses to increase their number of college / graduate school targeted internships?  Heck, the city could help organize and find centralized locations for summer housing for interns coming into town from outside universities.  Network, have a good time in Jacksonville, be around other energetic young people...might pay off.     

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/us/25young.html?pagewanted=all

[kells904]

This is a really good question...

Some places think they're big time, when they kinda aren't.  I don't consider SJTC a "destination", as it appears many do.  If anything, I consider it a chance to get in a car accident every time I go out there.  Day by day, River City Marketplace is catching up.  But I digress...

I'd like to see a moratorium on road construction, so that we could stop knocking down trees to put up more tract housing and strip malls, adding to an ever-growing road construction budget, and a tax base that can barely keep up.

Since the city buses can't make it into most residential areas--allegedly--I'd like to see those little mini buses do that.  Drop the folks off at substations that currently don't even exist, instead of making Rosa Parks the ONLY transfer station.

I'd like to see an END to JTA as we know it.  In it's current form, it is an incompentent mutant of an Authority.  Whoever in that organization is of any worth, is being overhadowed by a whole lotta suck.

I'd like to see heritage streetcars in the neighborhoods surrounding the Core, painted either Teal or Black.  Commuter rail to connected the regions from the airport to the Riverfront to the Beaches and everywhere in between.

The Prime Osborn turned back into a Transportation Hub.  Everything decked out in a retro, WWII-era style.

Since that would mean no Convention Center, that the hotels we have in place now take up the slack in the meantime.  Our Convention business isn't strong enough to warrant a new one yet, IMO, and should help the hotels make a few pesos.

I do like the idea of "Riverfront" being sort of an interchangeable name with "Downtown".

Public art along the Riverwalk, something sort of like what they have along the San Diego Bay.

I'd like to see Shad Khan and Mark Lamping inundate us with so much Jags advertising that it makes people sick, including wrapping the Skyway trains.  I'd like to see the Skyway go to the Sports Complex.  It would be nice if each station actually had kiosks/food options.

Stop filtering everyone out of Downtown on gamedays.  If we had a funtioning train system, we wouldn't need to use buses and cops to do it anyway.

Riverboats, going up and down the St. John's.  Some of them could be gambling boats; others, simply floating restaurants, day cruises, whatever.

I just googled regatta, so apparently we have one.  Would be nice if it were advertised.  Jet ski races in front of the Landing? 

I thought it'd be cool if one street Downtown was peppered with small theaters, complete with old-style marquees.  Each of them could play one or two movies.  An AMC broken down into several smaller parts, so to speak...They could also host small-venue concerts.

How about a yearly, local music festival?  Do we have one of those?  I don't mean Jazz Fest; I mean for local rock bands and singers and whatnot.  A really cheap affair, in Metro Park or something, possibly sponsored by the local breweries that are popping up...

Become one of America's medical epicenters, like Rick Mullaney was talking about when he was running for mayor.

The Bob Hayes Invitational needs to be moved to a larger venue.  For its ability to pull such a high level of talent from across the state the way it does, it should be such a big deal locally at this point, it should be even a bigger deal than it currently is. But instead it's cramped onto the Raines campus where parking is a nightmare, the bleachers look like a tent city, and the concession stands are total chaos.  I was thinking UNF.

Sort of off-subject, but not really...I want the FCAT to go away.  It's clearly done more harm than good, as kids are graduating without even being able to write a coherent sentence.

I'd like to see the City take some of Ennis's FREE advice on increasing Downtown foot traffic.

That's all I can come up with right now...
The love being showered on 7-Eleven's return, and people getting all gooey inside over every little thing, is simply an indication that people are desperate to cling to "something" that validates the city's worth, IMO.  It's just a little misguided since there seems to have been a concerted effort to bury everything that once made the City great.

[Anti redneck]

This is a really good question...

Some places think they're big time, when they kinda aren't.  I don't consider SJTC a "destination", as it appears many do.  If anything, I consider it a chance to get in a car accident every time I go out there.  Day by day, River City Marketplace is catching up.  But I digress...

I'd like to see a moratorium on road construction, so that we could stop knocking down trees to put up more tract housing and strip malls, adding to an ever-growing road construction budget, and a tax base that can barely keep up.

Since the city buses can't make it into most residential areas--allegedly--I'd like to see those little mini buses do that.  Drop the folks off at substations that currently don't even exist, instead of making Rosa Parks the ONLY transfer station.

I'd like to see an END to JTA as we know it.  In it's current form, it is an incompentent mutant of an Authority.  Whoever in that organization is of any worth, is being overhadowed by a whole lotta suck.

I'd like to see heritage streetcars in the neighborhoods surrounding the Core, painted either Teal or Black.  Commuter rail to connected the regions from the airport to the Riverfront to the Beaches and everywhere in between.

The Prime Osborn turned back into a Transportation Hub.  Everything decked out in a retro, WWII-era style.

Since that would mean no Convention Center, that the hotels we have in place now take up the slack in the meantime.  Our Convention business isn't strong enough to warrant a new one yet, IMO, and should help the hotels make a few pesos.

I do like the idea of "Riverfront" being sort of an interchangeable name with "Downtown".

Public art along the Riverwalk, something sort of like what they have along the San Diego Bay.

I'd like to see Shad Khan and Mark Lamping inundate us with so much Jags advertising that it makes people sick, including wrapping the Skyway trains.  I'd like to see the Skyway go to the Sports Complex.  It would be nice if each station actually had kiosks/food options.

Stop filtering everyone out of Downtown on gamedays.  If we had a funtioning train system, we wouldn't need to use buses and cops to do it anyway.

Riverboats, going up and down the St. John's.  Some of them could be gambling boats; others, simply floating restaurants, day cruises, whatever.

I just googled regatta, so apparently we have one.  Would be nice if it were advertised.  Jet ski races in front of the Landing? 

I thought it'd be cool if one street Downtown was peppered with small theaters, complete with old-style marquees.  Each of them could play one or two movies.  An AMC broken down into several smaller parts, so to speak...They could also host small-venue concerts.

How about a yearly, local music festival?  Do we have one of those?  I don't mean Jazz Fest; I mean for local rock bands and singers and whatnot.  A really cheap affair, in Metro Park or something, possibly sponsored by the local breweries that are popping up...

Become one of America's medical epicenters, like Rick Mullaney was talking about when he was running for mayor.

The Bob Hayes Invitational needs to be moved to a larger venue.  For its ability to pull such a high level of talent from across the state the way it does, it should be such a big deal locally at this point, it should be even a bigger deal than it currently is. But instead it's cramped onto the Raines campus where parking is a nightmare, the bleachers look like a tent city, and the concession stands are total chaos.  I was thinking UNF.

Sort of off-subject, but not really...I want the FCAT to go away.  It's clearly done more harm than good, as kids are graduating without even being able to write a coherent sentence.

I'd like to see the City take some of Ennis's FREE advice on increasing Downtown foot traffic.

That's all I can come up with right now...
The love being showered on 7-Eleven's return, and people getting all gooey inside over every little thing, is simply an indication that people are desperate to cling to "something" that validates the city's worth, IMO.  It's just a little misguided since there seems to have been a concerted effort to bury everything that once made the City great.

I don't consider SJTC a destination either. Not a bad place to go, though. I didn't think it would kill Regency and the Avenues, though. If anything, I thought it would just add to Jacksonville's shopping scene. If I had the money, I would buy Regency Square Mall and I would totally renovate it to be 3 stories high with an ice skating rink in the middle, an indoor bike ramp/skate ramp, and whatever stores you could think of. Add a parking garage to it, with a crosswalk that stretches from over Atlantic Blvd. to Arlington Expwy., going right through the mall itself, and ending at AMC. That'll give SJTC some competition!

I think excessive road construction goes to far and that money can be put toward better things, but I would like to see more convenient access to get around the city. We have enough strip malls and I cringe when I hear that they're building another strip mall. Build something worth building.

I wouldn't mind over-advertising on the Jags. Yes, build more terminals with trains. Paint more teal and black. Hell, even pictures of Lynyrd Skynyrd on some of the downtown buildings and Jaguars on the other. Give people reasons to celebrate.

Jacksonville used to have a lot of good local bands back in the day. I don't know if I just stopped following or if the scene really did die out. I used to see shows at Jack Rabbit's and Club 5 all the time. Looking back, those were some good times.

Jet ski races in front of the landing? My thoughts exactly! I'm glad someone else sees what I see! I would totally participate in something like that!

And yes! Stop celebrating over stupid things.

I mean, come on. Really? The city gets excited over 7-11??? Stuff like that makes me ashamed to be from here. "Ooh, we're getting a Cheesecake Factory/P.F. Chang's/Dave & Buster's!" "Ooh, 7-11 is coming back! That means Jacksonville really is a city!" Sounds retarded doesn't it?

Who else is with me?

[JFman00]

All my friends (military, college degrees, 23-34), spend most of their time at Tinseltown or SJTC. If I didn't drag them out to the urban neighborhoods, they would be otherwise unaware. "Taverna in San Marco" I say. "San Marco? Where's that?" they say.

I think that since Jacksonville doesn't advertise its uniqueness, aside from the kinds of people that frequent this and similar websites, transient residents like me and my friends will stick to stuff they know (stuff that's the same everywhere).

[thelakelander]

I'm in that age range. I spend a lot of my free time in other cities experiencing amenities I wish Jax had before I get to old to enjoy them. I can't tell you the last time I've been to Tinseltown or SJTC. Every major city has multiple SJTCs.  What makes Jax's so special?

[ben says]

All my friends (military, college degrees, 23-34), spend most of their time at Tinseltown or SJTC. If I didn't drag them out to the urban neighborhoods, they would be otherwise unaware. "Taverna in San Marco" I say. "San Marco? Where's that?" they say.

I think that since Jacksonville doesn't advertise its uniqueness, aside from the kinds of people that frequent this and similar websites, transient residents like me and my friends will stick to stuff they know (stuff that's the same everywhere).

You'd be surprised at how many students in Jax have never heard of San Marco, Avondale, Riverside, 5 Points after having spent almost a full academic year here. Seriously! 9/10 students I've met had to be introduced to these places (and of course, now they're going regularly). Moreover, 9/10 students, before being introduced, literally thought SJTC, the Southside, Baymeadows, was Jacksonville! People spoke of a "downtown" or "riverfront" like it was a myth.

I'm in that age range. I spend a lot of my free time in other cities experiencing amenities I wish Jax had before I get to old to enjoy them. I can't tell you the last time I've been to Tinseltown or SJTC. Every major city has multiple SJTCs.  What makes Jax's so special?

+1

[blandman]

I'm in that age range. I spend a lot of my free time in other cities experiencing amenities I wish Jax had before I get to old to enjoy them. I can't tell you the last time I've been to Tinseltown or SJTC. Every major city has multiple SJTCs.  What makes Jax's so special?

Agreed.  Have no idea what makes SJTC so great.  Orlando has mulitple SJTC's, as do most cities of similar populations.  Boring.

Just spent the weekend in Portland, Maine. Awesome restaurant scene, all very unique places.  Very few chains...at least downtown.  Some observations/comparisons to Jacksonville from my short stay:  parking was a bit of a hassle, but found street parking after a few laps all three days...not scientific, but I would guess Jax has more parking parages.  Public transportation was mediocre: no light rail/street car, plenty of buses.  No high rise apartment/condo buildings.  No major university downtown...University of Southern Maine is suburban and not as big as UNF.  Weather was great, but unusual for the time of year...I'm sure it was nicer in Jax.  My rambling point:  It had no specific "built-in" advantage over Jacksonville, but seemed to thrive.  It felt authentic.  That authenticity exists in Jax, but it's sometimes hard to find.

[ben says]

^ If anything, Jacksonville should have the built-in advantage you speak of. Situated at the crosshairs of 95 and I-10, easy access to rivers, lakes, ocean, springs. Quick drives to everything from Atlanta to Miami to Savannah and Orlando. A historic center (Avondale) that mirrors parts of a Charleston or Savannah-esque town.

[thelakelander]

Just spent the weekend in Portland, Maine. Awesome restaurant scene, all very unique places.  Very few chains...at least downtown.  Some observations/comparisons to Jacksonville from my short stay:  parking was a bit of a hassle, but found street parking after a few laps all three days...not scientific, but I would guess Jax has more parking parages.  Public transportation was mediocre: no light rail/street car, plenty of buses.  No high rise apartment/condo buildings.  No major university downtown...University of Southern Maine is suburban and not as big as UNF.  Weather was great, but unusual for the time of year...I'm sure it was nicer in Jax.  My rambling point:  It had no specific "built-in" advantage over Jacksonville, but seemed to thrive.  It felt authentic.  That authenticity exists in Jax, but it's sometimes hard to find.

I spent some time in Portland a few years ago.  One of the authentic things I loved about that city was its working waterfront in the Old Port District.

[Anti redneck]

A lot of people I hear from keep saying the same thing. Jacksonville is a boring city, that it just keeps getting more and more dead. Can't say I disagree. Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?

[blandman]

Really, if you look around, there's not really anything going on. How can a city attract people to live in it if it's not very entertaining?

It seems to me that the main complaint of a lot of people on this forum is that there are not enough people in Jacksonville like the people on this forum. 

Every time I come to town though, I see plenty of people supporting the "cool" businesses around town.  Went to Kickback's last year to watch a Phillies game (my in-laws don't even get basic cable...i.e., ESPN!!!) and it was packed (not many Phillies fans, though).  Went to The French Pantry last year when I was working in Jax...packed at lunch in the middle of the week.  Went to Bold City on a Saturday the weekend of the Eagles/Jags game last year...good crowd.  Went to Bold Bean this last December during a weekday morning...plenty of folks.  The beer scene is getting stronger every year. 

The progress just seems incredibly slow, and the marketing of Jacksonville appears non-existent.  I seriously cannot believe how cheap you can get a 60-70 year old 1,000 sqft bungalow in a very walkable neighborhood in Jacksonville.  Young people would be flocking to Jacksonville if there were somewhere to work.  It is almost never mentioned in a positive light in the national media (Super Bowl = 7+ years ago).  Sadly, I don't know what needs to be done to speed things up, but I have hope!