Is downtown fading?

[thelakelander]

The jail looks fairly modern (1970s/80s). If so, it will be around for a few decades.

[Wacca Pilatka]

The jail looks fairly modern (1970s/80s). If so, it will be around for a few decades.

I think it was completed in 1991.

[thelakelander]

Wow. So it's not even 25 years old. It's definitely not going anywhere soon.

[Know Growth]

The jail looks fairly modern (1970s/80s). If so, it will be around for a few decades.

............and decades from now,even if not so modern it may still be around.

[tufsu1]

I agree. Move the jail. There's condos next to it. Who wants to live near a jail?

maybe the people who live in Berkman...since the jail was there first!

[thelakelander]

Here is a picture of the Broward County Jail in DT Fort Lauderdale:





Here is the Broward County Jail's newest neighbor and tallest building in DT Fort Lauderdale.  The 42-story, 287 unit Las Olas River House.  It features a 10,000 square foot glass walled fitness center overlooking the jail.



The jail in the center background of this Las Olas River image:



Some may ask why I'm illustrating this.  The point I'm trying to make is that we don't have to worry about spending money to relocate a jail or coffee plant to bring life to downtown.

[thelakelander]

As for big industry....

Baltimore Inner Harbor - Domino Sugar


Downtown Mobile - Port of Mobile


Downtown Norfolk - Metro Marine shipyard



Downtown Kansas City Garment Loft District - Folgers Coffee Roasting Plant


Thousands of loft units have grown around this coffee roasting plant that Folgers wants to shut down this summer.    Downtown residents want it to remain manufacturing instead of being converted into another loft building.  The community has since rallied to get a local coffee company to purchase the building and continue operating it as a coffee plant.

Roasterie founder plans bid to acquire Folgers Coffee factory

The comforting aroma of roast­ing coffee has long captivated people in downtown Kansas City. It even defines a dis­trict there.

So when Folgers announced a year ago that it would close its Gar­ment Dis­trict plant by mid-2012, fans started a crusade to save it.

The “Please Don’t Close the Kansas City Folgers Plant!!” Facebook page now has more than 14,000 fol­lowers. One advocate pleaded: “We just don’t want the building to turn into the ‘Lofts of Folger Square.’ ”

Some people began pe­tition­ing an­oth­er coffee compa­ny, one with a strong fol­lowing in the community, to step in.

Danny O’Neill, founder of the Roas­t­erie, said he received more than 200 calls, e-mails and text messages af­ter the Folgers an­nounce­ment. “Have you thought about taking the Folgers plant?” they said.

O’Neill tried to respond to each one. “Do you know how big it is?” he would say. “They roast in a day almost what we roast in a year.”

But now O’Neill said he planned to make an offer for the prop­erty, even though an­oth­er bid was pending. He said he hoped the community would back him.

When he toured the Folgers plant last fall, he found the size overwhelm­ing: 217,160 square feet over two mul­ti­sto­ried buildings. He tossed the re­al estate brochure in the trash.

Fast-forward to last week. O’Neill returned from a buying trip to Costa Rica and found an es­ti­mate for an expan­sion and ren­ovation at the current Roas­t­erie site at 1204 W. 27th St. that topped $3.2 million. He didn’t expect it to be that much.

Then he heard the Folgers price tag was now $4.8 million. He didn’t expect it to be so low.

And it would be an even better deal if he sold off one of the Folgers’ buildings at 701 Broadway, earned tax cred­its for ren­ovating a historic prop­erty, added a coffee shop on the first floor and converted a top floor into an event space.

The Roas­t­erie was founded in 1993 in O’Neill’s Brook­side home. Less than a year lat­er it moved into a 2,000-square-foot space, and less than two years af­ter that it took a 13,000-square-foot site that was then so empty it echoed.

A decade lat­er the Roas­t­erie needs to expand again.

O’Neill said Kessinger Hunter got an offer last week from an­oth­er po­tential buyer for the Folgers plant. Bro­ker Dan Jensen had no com­ment.

“It’s a landmark. The history â€" that would be awesome to be there roast­ing coffee,” said O’Neill from his office in the Roas­t­erie headquar­ters. “And we want to keep some of the Folgers employees. Some have been there 30 years, 32 years.”

http://www.ongo.com/v/470084/-1/0369700D48156107/roasterie-founder-plans-bid-to-acquire-folgers-coffee-factory

All of the cities mentioned above have downtowns that are more vibrant than Jacksonville's.  A lesson for Jacksonville would be don't chase big industry out of downtown.  Companies like Maxwell House and North Florida Shipyards employ over 1,000 high paying downtown jobs combined.  Instead, focus on addressing the surface parking lots and empty buildings that are littered all over downtown.

[Noone]

The chasing off of industrial, maritime, and railroad facilities is the main reason for downtown's decline. IMO, Maxwell House should stay and we should consider a working waterfront over a passive one lined with condos.

I agree and a working waterfront. So who wants to kayak and fish under the brand new no fishing signs Downtown?

MJ'ers and Dist.5 fight for 2009-442

Jacksonville's Downtown CITIZENS REEF.

We Khan Make It Happen.

[JeffreyS]

I want to kayak I will IM you.

[Noone]

^^^^^AWESOME!!!!!

We'll rock DOWNTOWN!

1. Under the TU building.
2. Hogans Creek. Cleanup this Sat. 8-11 then to RAM
3. Under the Hyatt parking lot
4. Sydney Gefen Park
5. Exchange Club Island
6. Kayaking and fishing Dist.5 over
    Jacksonville's Downtown CITIZENS REEF

JeffreyS your in man.
We Khan Make It Happen.

We will be showing everyone.
We are Downtown and why you aren't.

[Anti redneck]

Where would the money come from to move the jail? It would be cheaper to move the condos (I'm not suggesting moving Berkman, lol).  However, I wouldn't get to caught up on the jail. Fort Lauderdale has a jail on its river and its downtown is still vibrant. In fact, its tallest condo tower and vertical Publix are both within a two block walk of it.

At least if there's a domestic disturbance call, police won't have to go far. 

[Anti redneck]

The chasing off of industrial, maritime, and railroad facilities is the main reason for downtown's decline. IMO, Maxwell House should stay and we should consider a working waterfront over a passive one lined with condos.

I agree and a working waterfront. So who wants to kayak and fish under the brand new no fishing signs Downtown?

MJ'ers and Dist.5 fight for 2009-442

Jacksonville's Downtown CITIZENS REEF.

We Khan Make It Happen.

YEAH!!! Stick it to the man!

[WmNussbaum]

Nice job, Lakelander. I stand corrected on Maxwell House. Now I'd like to know the per capita income in Broward County and Baltimore vs. Duval County. I suspect there is a noticeable disparity.

I checked with Wolfram Alpha, and in 1999, Duval was $20,753, Broward was $23,170, and Baltimore was $26,167. That doesn't sound like a lot, but for a family of 4, the difference is $10,000 a year between us and Broward. I'll bet it's a greater divide today - 13 years later.

Jacksonville's problem is, I think, a small base of people with something approaching wealth, however defined. I hope you can correct me on that - it'll give me hope.

[jcjohnpaint]

And Pittsburgh has a jail downtown right next to Duquesne Univ.  A lot of cities do.  And I love the Maxwell House Plant.  I do wish they would open a coffee museum on ground floor open to the shipyards property. 

[tufsu1]

Nice job, Lakelander. I stand corrected on Maxwell House. Now I'd like to know the per capita income in Broward County and Baltimore vs. Duval County. I suspect there is a noticeable disparity.

I checked with Wolfram Alpha, and in 1999, Duval was $20,753, Broward was $23,170, and Baltimore was $26,167. That doesn't sound like a lot, but for a family of 4, the difference is $10,000 a year between us and Broward. I'll bet it's a greater divide today - 13 years later.

sure, but income and cost of living go hand-in-hand...I can assure you that Jax. is at least 20% less expensive than Baltimore and likely similar vs. Ft. Lauderdale