DVI being bullish about tearing down old court for convention center

[Tacachale]

I'm all for tearing it down if the plan calls for that.

But there should be a PLAN first. Why even waste the dynamite without that?

This isn't rocket surgery.

[sheclown]

What +50 year old building doesn't have asbestos and rodents before renovation?  Who pays the millions for demolition without a plan?  Is that really the best use of limited public dollars right now? 

I'm not crazy about the building but this literally sounds insane and more of the same type of planning that's turned downtown into a smoldering heap of failure over the last 60 years.

+1

There are plenty of empty spaces downtown...we don't need any more.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Lake you ask who pays millions for a demolition without a plan? That would be Jacksonville, Fl.

[dougskiles]

If we're talking about finances, the question should be how many years of mothballing does it take to equal the cost of demolition?  Since I am hearing numbers in the millions for demolition, I imagine that equals many years of mothballing.

[Rumblefish]

If we're talking about finances, the question should be how many years of mothballing does it take to equal the cost of demolition?  Since I am hearing numbers in the millions for demolition, I imagine that equals many years of mothballing.

Except that demolition is going to be required.  Pay it now or pay it later.  Mothballing is money down the drain.

[Tacachale]

^Unless of course they can use some element of the buildings in the next project, whatever it is, in which case demolition is not the answer.

[duvaldude08]

Lake you ask who pays millions for a demolition without a plan? That would be Jacksonville, Fl.

Right! Its like, " Hey, we are THINKING about building a convention center, just go ahead and level everything. And if we cant get it built, it will be another huge gaping hole in downtown. No Big deal." LOL

Then they also have this theory that by tearing stuff down, you are getting it ready for "sale". Proprtyin our urban core is not exactly going like hot cakes. We have a ton of lots that are "ready for sale" right now and have been that way from 15 years. Look at the Brooklyn area. We leveled everything and now 15 years something MAY finally be built. And we wont even start on Lavilla.

[Dapperdan]

It makes no sense to keep either of these buildings. They are not historic. They are  ugly eyesores.  Why not pay now to get rid of them both and the new convention center will not have to wait for any demo work to begin? They Hyatt has almost 1,000 rooms. They do not need the annex for anything like that. They need the room for a public/pprivate partnership of a new Convention Center. Having a big ugly buidling in the way does not help anything. In this one case only, tearing them down does  make sense.

[KenFSU]

"Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves. Even when we had Penn Station, we couldn’t afford to keep it clean. We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed." - "Farewell to Penn Station," New York Times editorial, October 30, 1963

[Kaiser Soze]

It makes no sense to keep either of these buildings. They are not historic. They are  ugly eyesores.  Why not pay now to get rid of them both and the new convention center will not have to wait for any demo work to begin? They Hyatt has almost 1,000 rooms. They do not need the annex for anything like that. They need the room for a public/pprivate partnership of a new Convention Center. Having a big ugly buidling in the way does not help anything. In this one case only, tearing them down does  make sense.

huh?

Despite the fact that they symbolize what would be Haydon Burns most significantly damaging effect on downtown, I think they are iconic, beautiful buildings. 

And of course its well known that I think a Convention Center is a boondoggle without the leadership in place trained to develop and nurture specific conventions.  I think ChrisW made the clear point that Convention Centers are probably what finally killed downtown.

But such considerations aside, They would make really awesome spaces for urban pioneers, business incubators, gallery and performance spaces.

Ive always loved the use of aggregates in the buildings, all the nit picky crafstmanship that went into creating the place, and the architecture is marvelous.

Wait, are people on here really talking about preserving that old POS courthouse? 

[Wacca Pilatka]

Last time I was in town I got a 1972 Jacksonville pictorial that showed some very interesting baked tile designs on the outside of the Courthouse.  The building has more architectural significance than I initially thought.

[thelakelander]

It makes no sense to keep either of these buildings. They are not historic. They are  ugly eyesores.  Why not pay now to get rid of them both and the new convention center will not have to wait for any demo work to begin? They Hyatt has almost 1,000 rooms. They do not need the annex for anything like that. They need the room for a public/pprivate partnership of a new Convention Center. Having a big ugly buidling in the way does not help anything. In this one case only, tearing them down does  make sense.

The old city hall could possibly be suitable for a conversion into market rate urban apartments, similar to what was done with the Ashley Towers and Metropolitan Lofts buildings.   It's ground level could easily be retail, dining, and entertainment uses with the existing green space becoming a square for outdoor events in the Bay Street entertainment district.







It would be foolish to pay to demolish something like this without a plan, especially if it's structurally sound.

[dougskiles]

Despite the fact that they symbolize what would be Haydon Burns most significantly damaging effect on downtown, I think they are iconic, beautiful buildings. 

And of course its well known that I think a Convention Center is a boondoggle without the leadership in place trained to develop and nurture specific conventions.  I think ChrisW made the clear point that Convention Centers are probably what finally killed downtown.

But such considerations aside, They would make really awesome spaces for urban pioneers, business incubators, gallery and performance spaces.

Ive always loved the use of aggregates in the buildings, all the nit picky crafstmanship that went into creating the place, and the architecture is marvelous.

I agree.  One generation's garbage can become another's treasure.  But they'll never have the chance if we keep tearing stuff down.  Recent history clearly demonstrates that premature demolition does nothing to speed up redevelopment.  It does add to blight and a sense of emptiness in what should be the most dense part of our city.

[Kaiser Soze]

[thelakelander]

I'm not even making a preservation argument in this case.  I'm just saying its pretty foolish to pay taxpayer dollars to demolish anything of significant size without really knowing what you're going to do with the property and how that new use will be funded. 

Downtown has enough craters.  I'd rather see the millions going into demolishing something spent fixing up a Hemming Plaza,  helping to add a streetcar, finish the riverwalk to Metropolitan Park or Memorial Park, etc.  If the concern is the cost of maintaining these buildings then RFP the property and return it to the tax rolls.  All I'm saying is use some common sense people.

Last, but not least, we've know for over a decade that the courthouse was moving and, despite the delays, the new courthouse has been under construction since 2008.  Why in the world are we just waking up now and worrying about what to do with this site?  This discussion should have taken place 5 to 10 years ago.