Hemming Park Problem

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'm more curious as to how Moran thinks that people act more 'reasonably' when they know they're on camera.  He's posted more than enough YouTube clips to negate his own comment.  Aside from the fact that every reality TV program goes against that entire train of thought.

not to mention every single crime study ever implemented on the subject.  London saw a net zero drop in any kind of crime despite having the most videocameras of any other city on earth.

You mean the cameras didn't stop the criminals?  Unheard of.

How is their violent crime department doing?   You know, with all of their gun laws and such....
[you don't have to answer that, I've already made my mind up]

[thelakelander]

I must say, I'm not too crazy about a public restroom at the Main Street pocket park.  Main Street is a highway.  No need from an urban planning perspective to put your pedestrians in more harms way with fast moving vehicular traffic, especially children.  Hemming or bust, imo.

[thelakelander]

I'm more curious as to how Moran thinks that people act more 'reasonably' when they know they're on camera.  He's posted more than enough YouTube clips to negate his own comment.  Aside from the fact that every reality TV program goes against that entire train of thought.

I think it's been proven that Jax typically does not care about facts when it comes to downtown development and revitalization.  The process is a simple one that many places have provided examples of what and what not to do.  Cities have been designed and planned since the ancient Greek and Roman days.  The basic comforts of the pedestrian are still generally the same.  Despite this, we continue to pursue failed policies, which waste significant public resources.
not to mention every single crime study ever implemented on the subject.  London saw a net zero drop in any kind of crime despite having the most videocameras of any other city on earth.

[duvaldude08]

Hot Mess.com is all I have to say.

[Overstreet]

I've been in Jacksonville for 27 years now. Hemming Park/Plaza has had the same or similar discussion the whole time.   

[thelakelander]

^It's because we keep worrying about the visual effect and not attempting to resolve the cause.  Shifting/removing benches, security cameras, shooting the homeless, etc. aren't going to do one bit of good in making that park a place that attracts people.  However, making the park and the surrounding environment worth visiting on a daily basis to a wide range of residents in our overall community will.  Expect the same tired decades old results until we veer our outlook and policy decision making from the same tired path.

[fieldafm]

Maybe it's just me... but in a city that has a budget problem, and in a park with constant police and DVI downtown ambassador presence... why exactly are security cameras needed?

Seems to me that would be priority #249,978 on a list of bigger issues. 

[AKIRA]

My opinion is the more games of checkers and chess the better.  It gives people something to do with their minds, something to socialize over and is simply pleasant to watch.  After observing a few games I have learned there are some sharp minds, much sharper than mine, in that plaza on a daily basis. 

Every table ought to have a board attached.  I would go so far as to say that the library should have simple chess and checkers sets to check out.  Maybe even other board games.  I can imagine that procedures and protocol for that would have to be worked out, but if the library lends things other than books, like CDs, videotapes, zines, JEA home assessment equipement, then why not?  In Europe (and who doesn't like Europe? ) boarding gaming is much more prevalent. There are a few very active board game clubs here in Jax.

In reference to the shade in the northeast corner, I believe Stephen is absolutely correct.  People flock to it.  Shade is slightly less of an issue than in the past because of the library/MoCA and the Fed courthouse blocking some sun, but high noon is still high noon; truly brutal in the summer.  If the west end is going to become a larger, spread out, and more elusive during the traditional lunch time (when the business population can hang out), then the area will need some shade.  A few trees could go a long way.  I know that is more of a long term thing, but that sort of thing is what have to be done to make the plaza into something that flows with the immediate surroundings and and the populations willing to use it.

I'm not sure why cameras would be needed in one of the safest areas in town.  IF there are shenanigans afoot, they are probably happening within groups of densely packed people or out of the way alleys.  Again, a better design will keep folks from bunching up and make all things easier to see.

The plaza was built backwards.  The whole thing would flow much better if west and east ends were flipped around and the amenities (tables, shade) currently found in the northeast corner quadruped within the west end.  I'm sure the architecture drawings for the project looked great, but were probably not realistic considering the challenges and changes in neighboring businesses/institutions. 

[thelakelander]

It was probably designed to be more open on the west end because that's where JCPenney and Woolworth's were open at the time.

[tufsu1]

thanks for the info. Ron...I'm glad your recap of the meeting makes it sound less detrimental than originally feared.

Yes.  That is your tendency isnt it.

I do like to provide a balance to those who seemingly like to blow everything out of proportion

and your post above (#151) seems to provide that same calmer, reflective view...so thank you

[tufsu1]

please do not confuse me with others....I rarely said anything about the economic situation in 2007...and I sure didn't comment much on the SPAR threads

the other things you point out are a matter of interpretation....as I noted then, total downtown employment weas estimated to be about 54,000 (19,000 of which were in the core)....those are numbers that DVI, JEDC, Civic Council, etc. would support....Modis pulled out after the discussion where you and Chriss claimed the building was mostly vacant.....and while we're on the subject of occupancy, I think you'll find that even the latest commercial real estate reports show northbank vacancy aroubnd 25% (about 20% for the whole of downtown).

and yes, I stated that folks could pick up dinner at Burger King and Winn Dixie...but I never once claimed those as fine dining establishments.

You're right...clearly you're not keeping score 

[finehoe]

Chorus of complaints prompts Fort Lauderdale to weigh homeless options

By Mike Clary, Sun Sentinel

7:28 p.m. EST, February 15, 2012
FORT LAUDERDALEâ€"

The homeless encampment in the heart of downtown Fort Lauderdale has worn out its welcome.

The city commission on Tuesday will consider crafting an ordinance that would discourage the homeless from congregating in Stranahan Park, in response to a drop in foot traffic at nearby restaurants, businesses and the county's Main Library.

"There is no question that merchants and businesses in downtown are asking for and deserve relief," said Mayor Jack Seiler. "The city has made it clear we will do everything possible."

Chris Wren, executive director of the Downtown Development Authority, said there are no statistics on how the growing numbers of homeless is affecting businesses. But, he said, "with folks hanging out and milling all about, people feel uncomfortable walking to the food court. And people tell me they are starting to not want to drop their kids off at the library.''

Stranahan Park, on the southeast corner of Andrews Avenue and Broward Boulevard, "is the literal heart, the center of our city, and we should find a way to deal with this properly and respectfully," Wren said.

But city attorney Harry Stewart warned there's no easy way to clear the downtown park of scores of homeless who have made the public space off-limits to most residents and visitors.

"Homelessness is not a crime, panhandling is a form of free speech," he said. "Now we have to find a balance."

On sunny afternoons, 100 or more men and women lounge or sleep on the tattered lawn, often surrounded by backpacks, suitcases, piles of clothing, blankets and boxes of belongings. On days when shelters, churches or other groups offer free food, the litter left behind can be extensive.

The announcement this week that a once-popular restaurant in the library would close, in part because of the presence of the homeless out front, has made addressing the situation a hot-button issue. And some in the community say the growing daytime encampment poses another threat: to the city's reputation.

"I have not heard that it has tainted the city's reputation yet, but there is a risk of it doing so," said Seiler. "To have a large homeless population right in the heart of downtown is not good for the city's image."

Stewart said any law used to move the homeless would be based on "an overriding governmental interest," the basis of a law that bans panhandling or soliciting on beaches, beach sidewalks and within 150 feet of Atlantic Boulevard or Seabreeze Boulevard. That law is predicated on the importance of the beaches to the city's economic well-being, and has withstood legal challenges.

"Many of the homeless congregate in Stranahan Park as a resting place, a meeting place and a feeding place," said Harriet Buchbinder, treasurer of the Friends of the Fort Lauderdale Libraries. "While these are all justifications for using the park, their large and growing number creates an intimidating aura for those who wish to visit the downtown area and enjoy cultural and educational facilities and events.

"As a resort area, this is really a turn-off."

Any law that could move them out will come too late for Ymelda Luna Singh, who said she will close her Charcuterie Too restaurant at month's end, and for other businesses that have been hurt by the homeless presence.

"We have lost rental business over the years," said Susan McClellan, an architect and member of the Fort Lauderdale Women's Club, which meets in a 1917 clubhouse in the park available for parties and social events. "We have members who feel intimidated by the unwieldy population out there. We always tell people who rent, 'Have your party inside, and you need to have security.'"

At Café Verdi, which faces the park from its location on Southwest 1st Avenue, manager Javier Moran said he was accosted by a man with a knife when he tried to protect a patio diner from a panhandler about a year ago.

"It affects business," said Moran, "and the city doesn't seem to understand."

Even some of those who spend their days in the park recognize their presence can be worrisome to others.

"It can be intimidating, that's understandable," said Lockie Jones, 55, a resident of the Broward Outreach Shelter in Pompano Beach who came to the park Tuesday to get a haircut from friend Luther Burgess. "But city hall is right across the street. Maybe they should deal with it if it's that bad.''

In addition to crafting an ordinance, Seiler said the city has urged police to strictly enforce laws against minor crimes and has removed some benches to reduce the places where the homeless sleep. The city has also explored busing them back to their hometowns in a program similar to one run by Broward County.

Homeless advocate Sean Cononie said he understands that a homeless population, even though largely non-violent, can have a negative impact on business. "People are scared of them," he said.

Cononie said he recently proposed to public officials that a permanent home for the area homeless be created on a vacant lot in Dania Beach. "It's a perfect spot where they can receive services and not be picked on."

He said officials have not responded.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fl-stranahan-homeless-fallout-20120215,0,880880.story

[strider]

Hey, here's the answer.  Someone needs to call the CARE line and tell MCCD that the plumbing in the park is broken, you can smell the urine.  MCCD will then condemn the park as being unsafe and tell everyone the tables are about to fall over. Eventually they will tear it down.  Problem solved for all.  It is how Jacksonville seems to roll after all. 

[mtraininjax]

Hey, if we can keep the problematic people in Hemming, we will have fewer problems elsewhere. Plus Hemming is closer to the jail and courthouse than other parts of Jacksonville.

Perfect!

[AbelH]

Fascinating discussion...just read through the thread. Two points.

1. Actions have consequences. When the city made the decision to close Hemming Plaza at night it forced vagrants into outlying neighborhoods. They can now be found sleeping in other parks at night, including the band stand at Klutho Park. A short-term solution with only Hemming in mind does not solve Jacksonville's larger downtown and urban core issues. We need a serious solution for dealing with vagrancy in Jacksonville. That has to be part of the solution.
2. The lack of public facilities downtown is somewhat shocking. Why we wouldn't have a public loo is mind-boggling. Heck, copy the European model, and require 25 cents to enter if you must. But give folks somewhere to use a restroom. It might have the added benefit of improving the downtown Library experience.