Hemming Park Problem

[tufsu1]

if the idea of putting a public restroom in hemming Plaza doesn't work out, consider installing one in the Main St pocket park behind the library

[tufsu1]

apparently there was a meeting of the Council's Ad Hoc Committee on Hemming Plaza today....council members on the committee are Lee, Gulliford, and Redman.

Recommendations were made by, among others, Parks & Rec Director designee Kelly Boree...I'll get a list of the recommendations later today

[fsujax]

is there any discussion of restoring it back to its original design?

[Jaxson]

is there any discussion of restoring it back to its original design?

From your mouth to God's ears!  The current incarnation of Hemming Plaza looks too much like a wanna be mall courtyard from the 1980s for it to really fit into downtown - IMHO...

[thelakelander]

I heard they voted to remove some benches and relocate a few others in an attempt to disperse the people in the park.

[fieldafm]

I heard they voted to remove some benches and relocate a few others in an attempt to disperse the people in the park.

It was much worse than that.

Today we actually heard serious discussion to attempt to make it illegal to play chess, checkers, or card games in order to drive the park users out.

There was also discussion about turning off all electricity to the park to prevent jerry's kids from being able to recharge their phones or any other electrical devices.

To be frank its gotten to the point where it sounds like a group of people doing their politest utmost to bring back the third reich.

of the agenda, 75% of the suggestions were about how to liquidate the homeless and criminals, 25% of it was about programming other uses in the park itself, and literally no time was taken up discussing the actual park design in such a way that it complements the surrounding area or institutions.

no disussion about bike and scooter friendliness, no discussion about what amenities people would like to see in the park, no contemplation of any other issue than how to drive out all human creatures presently using the park.

And the lack of insight into why the park is designed the way that it is was pretty shocking.

For example, the room voted on 're configuring' the seating groups so that people cant actually talk to each other.

No one seemed to either realize or care that the seating is grouped the way that it is because of where the shade in the park is.

Under the new proposal we will be relocating about half of the seating into the open sun blasted area of the park, so that people who might want to sit down in Hemming will have to bring asbestos underwear and a portable tent in order to survive the nuclear energy of the summertime florida sun.

Its just maddening.

That's unacceptable.  It's Lumb, Lee and Redman on this thing?  What persons from COJ are involved? 

When is the next public comment on the issue?

Is the intention of this sub-committee to introduce legislation before Council?

[Jimmy]

I should know better... but what is DVI's position on the proposal?  It sounds like no one other than Jerry is holding much sway.  Surely there are other stakeholders (like the people here!) who should have an opportunity to input.  Aside from the great work that Ron has done already, I mean.

[JeffreyS]

Listen to Dennis Lee talking at the meeting.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/406107/ron-littlepage/2012-02-15/help-way-hemming-plaza

[JeffreyS]

I have updated my solutions list.
1. Add more seating and rope sections off for waited tables by the area restaurants.
2. Add WiFi to the park to keep downtown business people connected during lunch.
3. Utilize Kings avenue garage and skyway for Jurors at the new courthouse they will have to funnel through Hemming.
4. Bring back the Friday farmers market.
5. Encourage Mocha and UNF who both teach art at the location to have daily painting and drawing classes in the plaza.

Nothing expensive nothing destructive.

[Ocklawaha]

if the idea of putting a public restroom in hemming Plaza doesn't work out, consider installing one in the Main St pocket park behind the library

Once again I'll mention the Colombian method for public restrooms. It's simple really, you hire homeless people to keep it clean and work for tips. A "PLEASE TIP ME if I did a good job" sign is all it takes. They'll also sell you some toilet paper, folded and packaged in a little box like Chiclets for their equivalent of a quarter.

[Bridges]

Ugh, horrible decisions.

[tufsu1]

I have a copy of the committee's recommendations...it primarily involves having DVI and the City do a survey (possibly using survey monkey)...most of the questions seem good

at the bottom there is a list of improvement recommendations...which I would hope wouldn't be implemented until AFTER the survey results have been analyzed....these include

- close a portion of the park to complete improvements
- remove distressed trees and under story from planters and replace w/ low growing plants (use local garden clubs to maintain)
- move benches to park perimeter and eliminate groupings
- remove some tables/chairs from northeast corner of park
- if permanent tables/chairs are removed, temporary ones should be utilized
- recommend police/security presence
- several programming ideas, including schools @ stage, art classes, MOCA exhibits, library readings, expos for clubs

[ronchamblin]

I forgot today to mention the Portland Loo outdoor restroom idea, although on Tuesday, via email I offered the idea to Denise Lee, including the link to the unit as posted by the Lakelander.  And tufsu1, your idea of placing the restroom on the main street park near the library is something to seriously consider, as it might offer an option to Hemming for some occupiers.  I plan to broach this at the next meeting.
Some responses to posts:

is there any discussion of restoring it back to its original design?

Not really.  There was discussion about small changes such as lowering some of the plant areas to provide more visibility.  There was some talk about the removal of any trees that are diseased.  But overall, there is no aggressive push to radically change the park.  Eventually some of the brick areas might be removed to make grass areas.  The lack of money was viewed as one reason to not to do radical changes at this time.
 
Even though I think of the park as being beautiful, I can envision being happy with a radical change as long as sufficient trees remain.  In my opinion the trees give the park a kind of beauty we need in the area.  In the meeting it was mentioned that one reason the cost of radical change would be so expensive is that beneath all of that brick is a lot of utilities, even an old underground restroom, thus complicating the process of radical change.

I heard they voted to remove some benches and relocate a few others in an attempt to disperse the people in the park.

There was a vote to relocate some of the tables and benches, especially those in the northeast corner, to test the idea of spreading them out so that there would be less of a tendency of individuals to crowd together, as if they were taking over an area.  This “spreading” experiment might also provide more tables and benches for individuals desiring a small measure of privacy. 

Quote: Stephen Dare

"Today we actually heard serious discussion to attempt to make it illegal to play chess, checkers, or card games in order to drive the park users out."

Although there was a discussion about making it illegal to play chess and other games at the tables, there was no serious discussion of this option.  This is a park.  People should be able to play chess in a park.  I'm sure the option of banning chess or games is not to be taken.

Quote: Stephen Dare

"There was also discussion about turning off all electricity to the park to prevent jerry's kids from being able to recharge their phones or any other electrical devices."

There was indeed a discussion about turning the electricity off in the park at night.  Initially, along with Stephen, I thought this rather ridiculous.  How much electricity can be used by someone charging their cellphone or computer?  Why not provide this convenience for those who need very small amounts of electricity?  But of course, the park is closed at night so, legally, nobody can be in the park to use the electricity anyway.  I can envision someone plugging in their electric blanket during a freezing night, hidden behind a ledge.  The thinking is that providing electricity at night would only encourage attempts to sleep and camp in the park at night.  In any case, it looks like the electricity will be turned off at night.

Quote: Stephen Dare

"Of the agenda, 75% of the suggestions were about how to liquidate the homeless and criminals, 25% of it was about programming other uses in the park itself, and literally no time was taken up discussing the actual park design in such a way that it complements the surrounding area or institutions."

At a previous meeting we discussed methods of programming, with the view that we would return again to this subject in more detail.  The persistent problem of the “occupying” individuals was a focus.  We discussed methods to decrease the negative impact of a commandeering group taking over a segment of the park, or giving the appearance of doing so.  Although banning those who break the rules was established as being necessary, nobody suggested that we aggressively enforce rules and banning for the sole purpose of decreasing the occupy population.  Stephen brought up some very good points, questioning various assumptions and adding some particulars to enlighten, as he has been familiar with the park over decades.  The meeting was two hours long, not enough time to cover everything we wanted to discuss.  The next meeting is in two weeks.

Jerry Moran and others pushed for the installation of cameras.  Most agreed that cameras would be a good thing, as experience has shown that people act better when they know they are on camera.  My guess is that cameras will eventually be installed in the park, and will be monitored by either the JSO, or a security agency.     

DVI seems to support most of what is proposed so far, especially the emphasis on programming the park, and making small changes to the park layout to accomplish objectives regarding the habitual occupiers.  For the most part DVI encourages positive changes, and does not focus excessively on the expulsion of the individuals who seem to always occupy the park. 

I have updated my solutions list.
1. Add more seating and rope sections off for waited tables by the area restaurants.
2. Add WiFi to the park to keep downtown business people connected during lunch.
3. Utilize Kings avenue garage and skyway for Jurors at the new courthouse they will have to funnel through Hemming.
4. Bring back the Friday farmers market.
5. Encourage Mocha and UNF who both teach art at the location to have daily painting and drawing classes in the plaza.

Nothing expensive nothing destructive.

All items look good JeffreyS.  However, if you remember, the Friday farmer’s market in the park was relocated to the landing because of a decline in the quality of the vendors and products, and therefore the market’s customers.  However, this is not to say that a return of the market to Hemming could not be initiated, with perhaps some guidelines to insure the quality of the food and products offered. 

I have a copy of the committee's recommendations...it primarily involves having DVI and the City do a survey (possibly using survey monkey)...most of the questions seem good
at the bottom there is a list of improvement recommendations...which I would hope wouldn't be implemented until AFTER the survey results have been analyzed....these include

- close a portion of the park to complete improvements
- remove distressed trees and under story from planters and replace w/ low growing plants (use local garden clubs to maintain)
- move benches to park perimeter and eliminate groupings
- remove some tables/chairs from northeast corner of park
- if permanent tables/chairs are removed, temporary ones should be utilized
- recommend police/security presence
- several programming ideas, including schools @ stage, art classes, MOCA exhibits, library readings, expos for clubs

That’s about right.  However, I don’t think we intend to remove the tables from the northeast corner, but only to reposition them to another area in the park.  There is a growing consensus that we do not want to actually decrease the number of tables or benches in the park at this time, but only to relocate some in order to experiment with spreading them out. 

[tufsu1]

thanks for the info. Ron...I'm glad your recap of the meeting makes it sound less detrimental than originally feared.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'm more curious as to how Moran thinks that people act more 'reasonably' when they know they're on camera.  He's posted more than enough YouTube clips to negate his own comment.  Aside from the fact that every reality TV program goes against that entire train of thought.