Hemming Park Problem

Tacachale · February 13, 2012, 04:49:56 PM

^That's a terrific idea, I would definitely bring up the Courthouse using the Kings Ave garage and connecting to Hemming Plaza by skyway. That would definitely inject some new action into Hemming, while at the same time eliminating the cost of either paying for more expensive parking nearby, or paying for a shuttle out to the stadium complex.

John P · February 13, 2012, 05:34:46 PM

People continue to make straw man arguements. Because stricter enforcement of rules to push homeless out are advocated for does not mean benches and tables being removed. Here it is plain and simple. Make a place equally as attractive to homeless and start aggressively puish them out and they will go to the equally attractive place. At the same time regular programming can be added to increase vibrancy. I think the WIFI idea is very good. I also think Sheriff Rutherfords idea of a homeless release center in Ray Holts district is a good idea. Ray has already agreed to it. This way habiutal troublemakers have to REALLY want to return to downtown and they will probably be less eager to be arrested.

strider · February 13, 2012, 06:08:03 PM

QuoteI also think Sheriff Rutherfords idea of a homeless release center in Ray Holts district is a good idea. Ray has already agreed to it. This way habiutal troublemakers have to REALLY want to return to downtown and they will probably be less eager to be arrested.

As to the idea of Sheriff Rutherford's, my concern is that though out history detention centers or interment camps of any type or by any other name, for supposed good or bad reasons, have never worked out to well for anyone concerned. It is done for the same reasons though out history. A group some fear or do not like is moved somewhere else. Why would anyone really believe the idea will work out now and for this reason?

Use the park or lose it.

tufsu1 · February 13, 2012, 07:14:44 PM

Quote from: Tacachale on February 13, 2012, 04:49:56 PM
^That's a terrific idea, I would definitely bring up the Courthouse using the Kings Ave garage and connecting to Hemming Plaza by skyway.

the problem with that theory is most people would get off at Central Station...it is, after all, slightly closer to the courthouse front door...and often skyway trains from the southbank require transfers at Central Station to get to Hemming and FSCJ anyway.

JeffreyS · February 13, 2012, 07:16:46 PM

The north south line runs direct now. Are you sure central would be closer to the new court house?

tufsu1 · February 13, 2012, 07:23:40 PM

it is about 3.5 blocks from the station to the front door either way...but if you add the skyway time to get from Central to Hemming, it would be longer total time...plus folks will see the new courthouse as they come across the Acosta Bridge, so many will likely get off at the first stop after crossing the river.

thelakelander · February 13, 2012, 07:44:24 PM

^Yes, Central Station and Hemming Plaza are an equal distance (2.5 blocks) from the front door of the courthouse's main entrance. However, Hemming Plaza is a one block walk from the old federal courthouse (i'm not sure of what courthouse functions are going in there).

tufsu1 · February 13, 2012, 07:54:53 PM

I think the only thing going in there is there the State Attorney...although that is a huge building solely for Angela Corey

AKIRA · February 13, 2012, 09:30:01 PM

(Pardon me if I repeat anything that has already been offered)

If I understand where Ron and his folks are coming from, it is from the point of bringing potential customers in that have stated they are uncomfortable or scared of the crowd that they see at the plaza. Right or wrong in their opinions, its the objective to get their money downtown. Once that happens, they should realize its actually pretty nice place.

The issue proposed is that there are certain people who are loitering in the park en masse and all day long, but isn' that what the park is designed for?

Why complain that people are occupying a park when the whole thing is built specifically to be "occupied"? There are tables and chairs, so people will seat in them until they HAVE to go. There are electrical outlets, shade and the protection of police. If they don't have any where better to be, then why not stay? It is the same sort of silliness when a coffee shop complains people stay to long. You give them a cheap drinking option, comfortable chair and wifi.. of course their going to stay. If not for other obligations, I'd never leave Chamblins. In that light, the plaza is a stunning success.

Here are my thoughts about the area. Adjacent to the plaza is MoCA, the library and city hall. Three neat places that don't really cost anything to visit. Right now, the plaza only serves as a walking corridor to connect them. Why not adapt the design to work with the surrounding institutions?

The library's challenges have changed since so much of the population use it for free internet access. Fine. But the library offers a fantastic children's and teen's wing, with programs to match. They also offer free concerts for all ages. I think parents from all around bring their youngsters if there was a little more offered. The more I am thinking of is in a greater connection with the neighboring places.

The MoCA has much to offer young and old as well. I was taken to the Cummer as a kid on a monthly basis. The gallery itself was a draw but so was the gardens (and the nearby duck park). There was much happiness in having a neat inside place and fun outside place to go in the same trip.

As for city hall, I know its primary a business office, but the dome and the chance to display Jacksonville related photos, history and art is underutilized on the first floor as a draw for citizens to come see their hall.

That whole area could make an excellent "family day" sort of thing. Obviously bars and clubs next to the plaza aren't likely, nor is unique stores, as draw to bring people downtown to the plaza area, so how about something for a family? If you want people to live downtown, you got to give them a grocery, shops and a place to walk with the kids.

I would suggest that the park ultimately be redesigned so that the area across the street from the library and MoCA become a park/playground for children or an outdoor cafe (possibly both if Shelby's is forever gone). The fountains and pools are pretty (not really, probably looked better on paper) but useless except to limit flex space for people to stretch out. Seeing kids and parents playing in the middle of down town would be great for the city's rep.

More immediately though, I suggest increasing the number of tables but space them out in the open area next to the people mover station. If the tables and chairs were bolted down, they could be taken up when the city wants to use the space for a big event. The greatest concentration of people is currently in the northeast area where there is the greatest concentration of sitting (tables and edge of fountain). If the hang out spot was in the west side where I mentioned, there would be more space for people to occupy thus allow for more elbow room room for people to feel comfortable (and looks more appealing). Definitely don't take away seats to remove one overwhelming element, instead add more, spaced out sensibly to dilute the appearance of a crowded place and make others feel welcome. That is what happens during art walk, jazz festival and such.

thelakelander · February 13, 2012, 09:54:51 PM

Great comment!

JeffreyS · February 13, 2012, 10:04:19 PM

AKIRA great suggestion adding seating could really dilute the situation. I would like to see a few areas reserved for waited tables.

ronchamblin · February 13, 2012, 10:34:27 PM

I like the direction of the forum; that is, toward more positives, toward long term improvements, and less to the negative options of aggressive rule enforcement, banning, and the destruction of the park. A park is built to be used and occupied by all kinds of people. How boring it would be to see only well dressed, well fed, and well behaved people in the park. There are limits to everything of course. There is a balance. But the edge of any thing or spectrum is often more interesting.

Tacachale · February 14, 2012, 08:57:42 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on February 13, 2012, 07:44:24 PM
^Yes, Central Station and Hemming Plaza are an equal distance (2.5 blocks) from the front door of the courthouse's main entrance. However, Hemming Plaza is a one block walk from the old federal courthouse (i'm not sure of what courthouse functions are going in there).

I didnt consider central station. Looking at the route I'd probably still take it to Hemming if it was one train, which it easily could be.

Either way the Kings Garage/Skyway solution is a good idea for the courthouse for the other reasons I mention, and it would bring at least some new people (out of several hundred weekly) to Hemming.

thelakelander · February 14, 2012, 09:19:46 AM

^Yes, its a great solution that should be a no-brainer for all involved with downtown.

sheclown · February 14, 2012, 09:27:11 AM

QuoteThe appearance of the â€œunwanted elementsâ€ in the park, although awkward, uncomfortable, and offensive to many, is a constant expression of truth, a reminder of reality. These unfortunate individuals are not hiding under bridges and overpasses, in the woods, out of sight, as if they were lepers. We need expressions of honesty and truth about our society, and about our city, so we should perhaps at least give these people credit for offering these things, for reminding us by their presence, that all is not right.

*smile*