Penny Wise - Pound Foolish

[ChriswUfGator]

I've been in the courtroom more than a few times when a defendant has "vaguely"  threatened a young ASA with their life.  It is a valid concern.  The "terrible precedent" is a $400M county courthouse.  The walkway would cost under a million, and I'll just agree to disagree...again.

People spout off, it's human nature. At me too. Where's my million-dollar bridge? I wanna feel like a Medici too!

FWIW, if you're going to spend the money on anything, then spend it on extra security for the family division judges and attorneys. Aside from the shooting in Atlanta years ago, pretty much every time you read about someone going berserk and shooting a judge or a lawyer, it's a domestic case. That's where the real whackos are. I don't do family law, so I wouldn't benefit from it one way or the other. Just saying, the stupid sky bridge for Angela Corey is unnecessary. You cops face 1000X more danger, we resolve that by giving you vests and guns. Although, admittedly, I do think your little air-force and the tank is a bit over the top. But this bridge is just absurd.

The price is grossly disproportionate to the minimal level of risk, the money could be much better spent.

[ben says]

FWIW, if you're going to spend the money on anything, then spend it on extra security for the family division judges and attorneys. Aside from the shooting in Atlanta years ago, pretty much every time you read about someone going berserk and shooting a judge or a lawyer, it's a domestic case. That's where the real whackos are. I don't do family law, so I wouldn't benefit from it one way or the other. Just saying, the stupid sky bridge for Angela Corey is unnecessary. You cops face 1000X more danger, we resolve that by giving you vests and guns. Although, admittedly, I do think your little air-force and the tank is a bit over the top. But this bridge is just absurd.

Truer words have not been spoken. My mother, aunt, uncle, cousin, and sister are all do family law in Jax. Their clients, bar none, are the craziest people I've ever come across. Once the state starts 'messing' with families, kids, child support, husband/wife disputes, things go a bit wild.

As for criminal law (I've worked on that side too), I highly, and I mean HIGHLY doubt the State Attorney's need the protection Corey is requesting. Borderline laughable. Only in a Scott Turow novel would someone actually be going after a SA. Furthermore, I love how Corey says she needs to walkway for "Transporting evidence"...LOL...the biggest problem with transporting evidence doesn't come from whacko rogue thieves or criminal defendants, but the attorney's themselves.

[respman]

If we give her a covered walkway to stay safe, do we also have to give her an armored car to get home?

[tufsu1]

so the state attorney needs a bridge to connect the buildings, but the Public Defender attonryes have no significant concerns walking several blocks from their building....Angela, please explain

[NotNow]

Um...prosecutors try to put the criminals in jail, PD's try to keep them out.  The criminals don't like the ones who are trying to put them away.  Ms. Corey can correct me if I have that wrong.  (I tend to think of the criminals as "the real whackos", not the poor folks going through the pain of divorce.)

The enhanced security for the Judges has been built into the courthouse. 

JSO doesn't own a "tank".  It owns two armored vehicles.  They have many uses in police work.  As do helicopters.  Both are proven tools in common use in police forces across the world. 

[tufsu1]

and victims of crimes are often unhappy with defense attorneys who get "criminals" off

[NotNow]

Thus the terms "criminals" and "victims".  Look, I get that you guys don't want to provide this crossover.  It is silly for me to have to argue that criminals are more dangerous than the rest of us.  I have better things to do tonight than bicker over this.

[ChriswUfGator]

Um...prosecutors try to put the criminals in jail, PD's try to keep them out.  The criminals don't like the ones who are trying to put them away.  Ms. Corey can correct me if I have that wrong.  (I tend to think of the criminals as "the real whackos", not the poor folks going through the pain of divorce.)

The enhanced security for the Judges has been built into the courthouse. 

JSO doesn't own a "tank".  It owns two armored vehicles.  They have many uses in police work.  As do helicopters.  Both are proven tools in common use in police forces across the world. 

Call it what you wish, I think my point stands.











I mean, come on, this militarization of the police is already getting well out of hand. Now special $2mm bridges?

I'm sure it must be fun playing with your tanks and commandos, and your air force and navy to go along with it, but at some point for the rest of us who actually have to pay for this bullshit, it starts getting to be a bit much. And frankly, no, I don't feel a lick safer knowing that JSO could invade Panama if it wanted to. I just think its $&@?ing ridiculous and outrageous.

I'm surprised for someone with such strong feelings about the constitution and individual liberties, that you would be comfortable with this militarization of domestic police forces.

[NotNow]

Armored vehicles, Jet Ranger helos, and Boston Whaler boats do not make for "militarization".  Just because you do not understand the equipment and how it is used does not make that equipment "bullshit".  Those of us in law enforcement and the State Attorney's Office are also taxpayers, and have just as much say as anyone else on this forum. 

I'm surprised that someone with your education believes that the Constitution (we capitalize it where I come from) makes any reference to local or state police equipment.  (It does not.)  What individual liberties do you feel are being abridged by JSO being prepared to (as safely as possible) respond to barricaded and armed suspects, respond to waterborn incidents (in a county that has 145 square miles of water), and to search for lost persons, escapees or fugitives, and safely follow fleeing vehicles from the air? 

By the way, the nice SWAT Sgt. in your picture is holding a less lethal weapon.  The armored vehicle might allow SWAT to approach a rifle wielding suspect and incapacitate him/her so that suspect can live to see our nice, new $400M courthouse. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Well obviously there is no defending the courthouse, at $400mm. And that's AFTER they cut the budget and eliminated the dome that was bigger than the capitol. I am at the current one a lot and it's never overcrowded, I am unsure of why they couldn't renovate the current one. Well actually I think we all know why, they already had a convention center boondoggle in the works to enrich all the usual suspects. But that's a story for another time.

Anyway, with all that said, Angela Corey can make do without her private ponte vecchio. And I stand by what I said. The militarization of domestic police forces is out of control. Why can't you guys make do with, I dunno, maybe just one helicopter instead of three? You can't make do with just one tank? Excuse me, "armored personnel carriers." And my sincere heartfelt apologies that you have to suffer riding around in $100k boston whalers.

I mean, think of how much safer the children would be if you had this;



King of the Hill made an episode about this nonsensical cyclical logic, "Bond Measure Ssssss"

[NotNow]

I agree with you on the courthouse.  I still support the walkway.

It is my understanding that the maintenance schedule and operational hours dictate the number of helicopters.  The Patriot armored vehicle that you pictured was obtained cost free from the Air Force (the US one, not the JSO one) and is quite old.  My understanding is that it is one of the few still running.  The other armored vehicle was obtained at no cost to the city as well via Federal grant.  The Boston Whalers were also obtained via grant and cost the taxpayers nothing. 

Something that most citizens don't realize is that grant money and other income to the JSO is not shown on budget.  All of that goes to the city general fund.  The JSO budget then appears larger than it actually is because grant items are shown as expenses on the JSO budget.  This is also true for a good bit of the overtime that is actually reimbursed by the feds.  The money goes straight to the City, but shows as an expense on the JSO budget. 

And I WOULD like the big guns, if you wouldn't mind paying the operating expenses. 

[Tacachale]

We built the courthouse because the state required it. It had to be big because we're a big damn county and a big damn circuit. Case in point the Orange or Dade County courthouses. It got built the WAY it is because our previous mayor mismanaged the project catastrophically, and our current mayor is left to try and cut what little amount of costs he can manage.

In other words, the bridge was axed to save money out of Peyton's debacle, not because that one element is particularly wasteful or a bad idea in and of itself. Im not saying it's necessarily a good idea either - just that this is simply a cost cutting measure.

[AKIRA]

Until there is a cannon turret on the "tank", torpedos on the boat or an auto cannon mounted on the helo, then they can't be accused of being military.  They're just transports carrying dudes somewhere they need to go. 

I really wish an armored carrier was not ever necessary in Jax but when the barricaded bad guys have firearms (especially long guns) then that armor plating is worth it's weight in gold. 

I did not see the tv blurb that is in question....  I am under the impression that one reason the bridge is desired is that it can also be used to transport witnesses in violent felony cases (often agg. domestic violence cases) back and forth from court in a safe and protected manner.  Considering how hard it is to overcome the "stop snitching' attitude and peoples fears of revenge, it makes sense to me.   

[BridgeTroll]

Until there is a cannon turret on the "tank", torpedos on the boat or an auto cannon mounted on the helo, then they can't be accused of being military.  They're just transports carrying dudes somewhere they need to go. 

I really wish an armored carrier was not ever necessary in Jax but when the barricaded bad guys have firearms (especially long guns) then that armor plating is worth it's weight in gold. 

I did not see the tv blurb that is in question....  I am under the impression that one reason the bridge is desired is that it can also be used to transport witnesses in violent felony cases (often agg. domestic violence cases) back and forth from court in a safe and protected manner.  Considering how hard it is to overcome the "stop snitching' attitude and peoples fears of revenge, it makes sense to me.

So the revolutionary armies of George Washington weren't 'military'?

Or Alexander the Great's?

This is pure hogwash.

Cmon AKIRA... of course they can be "accused" of being military.  It is up to us to decide if the accusation is valid... Hmmm...

[NotNow]

Until there is a cannon turret on the "tank", torpedos on the boat or an auto cannon mounted on the helo, then they can't be accused of being military.  They're just transports carrying dudes somewhere they need to go. 

I really wish an armored carrier was not ever necessary in Jax but when the barricaded bad guys have firearms (especially long guns) then that armor plating is worth it's weight in gold. 

I did not see the tv blurb that is in question....  I am under the impression that one reason the bridge is desired is that it can also be used to transport witnesses in violent felony cases (often agg. domestic violence cases) back and forth from court in a safe and protected manner.  Considering how hard it is to overcome the "stop snitching' attitude and peoples fears of revenge, it makes sense to me.

So the revolutionary armies of George Washington weren't 'military'?

Or Alexander the Great's?

This is pure hogwash.

Huh?  Your statement makes no sense.  Please explain.