Penny Wise - Pound Foolish

[Ralph W]

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-01-25/story/city-looks-trim-4-million-new-duval-courthouse

Here we go, quibbling about chicken feed when the original multi=million price escalated from $190 million to over $350 million. Where were the gate watchers way back when? I see where they (judges) threw out a bone - agreeing that reusing the furniture from the old courthouse was a good idea. I'd like to have that contract to build or buy a big bucks conference table.

The powers that be can't even figure out how to get the jurors to the courthouse but the State Attorney has to have a covered walkway to cross the street. How did they deal with security and the weather in the old days?

Monroe St., the section between Hemming Plaza and the courthouse, should become a walking trail along with a dedicated 3 block trolley shuttle to bring City Hall, the Courthouse and the Skyway and the various patrons of both from outlying parking to work or duty. Someone could even open a restaurant or two to handle the lunch crowd.

[Ernest Street]

If the poor thin-skinned attorneys are being threatened,why don't they do something about it rather than just report it to SA Corey?
She came across as desperate last night on Ch4
Oh yes. "Tax Payers..please fund this walkway for my safety...to protect me from YOU."

[Tacachale]

To be fair it's kind of arbitrary that the stuff that's getting cut now is just the stuff that happens to be last in the line. Its not necessaily the stuff that makes the least sense, it just happens to have been put off until the term of a mayor who's serious about financial discipline for the first time in eight years. I don't know that the bridge is such a bad idea (especially when compared to tossing out $60 million in completed work).

[civil42806]

Its the way of building or manufacturing.  If you nearing completion of a project and your overbudget or need to reduce the cost, you don't have a way-back machine, so you have to cut stuff in front of you.

[Tacachale]

^Yes, absolutely, and good on Brown and co. for finding savings. But it's not entirely fair to say things like the pedestrian bridge are bad or wasteful ideas; the true bad ideas and waste have already occurred.

[Rumblefish]

If the poor thin-skinned attorneys are being threatened,why don't they do something about it rather than just report it to SA Corey?

I'm confused.  What do you expect them to do about it?  The state attorneys are not paid a fortune and have a job that puts them in the direct line of fire from some pretty dangerous felons.  Its a job that's vital to our community.  I see no problem in trying to protect them from the crooks they are trying to put away.

But back to the ridiculous statement you made.  What do you expect them o do about it.  They cannot arm themselves as weapons are not allowed in the court.  You expect them to train as ninjas?

[Ernest Street]

Where is security?  They are witness's. Report threats to JSO. Get descriptions of your antagonist.

[Rumblefish]

Where is security?  They are witness's. Report threats to JSO. Get descriptions of your antagonist.

Threats?  They are not concerned with threats.  They are concerned with outright physical violence.  And what witnesses are you talking about???  I'm talking about an assistant state attorney walking from their office to court to prosecute some scumbag. 

[climber]

Maybe i missed it, but i dont think that there's currently a rash of felon on state-attorney violence that needs to be corrected...by a walkway. Stated another way, there's no walkway to the courthouse now and the doorway isn't lined with bodies...its not like the SA's wear a nametag identifying themselves as such.  Further, if we're going the throw-them-a-bone route, why not provide a walkway or comparable amenity to the public defenders, who not only operate as the last line of defense for our constitutional liberties (and, in fact, largely define those liberties by making them available to everyone regardless of income), but also do so for less compensation than the state-attorneys. Just sayin.

[NotNow]

Rumblefish is right.  These young prosecutors ARE threatened on a regular basis.  Just google "prosecutor attacked" to see some of the stories.  There is no outside security at the old or new courthouse and JSO has no funding for additional Bailiffs (and will be quite shorthanded at the new courthouse).  I'm OK with having the public defender rent space in the old federal courthouse so they can use the walkway as well, but they have made no such request.  (Less compensation than ASA's?  Really?).  The largest waste of our money has already occurred in building this monstrosity.  I'm all for saving money but the SA is right on this one.

[ChriswUfGator]

If the poor thin-skinned attorneys are being threatened,why don't they do something about it rather than just report it to SA Corey?

I'm confused.  What do you expect them to do about it?  The state attorneys are not paid a fortune and have a job that puts them in the direct line of fire from some pretty dangerous felons.  Its a job that's vital to our community.  I see no problem in trying to protect them from the crooks they are trying to put away.

But back to the ridiculous statement you made.  What do you expect them o do about it.  They cannot arm themselves as weapons are not allowed in the court.  You expect them to train as ninjas?

Not to sound callous, but the removal of those in power from any interaction with those they have power over is the first step to the breakdown of a democracy. I'm against the bridge on general principle.

[ChriswUfGator]

Rumblefish is right.  These young prosecutors ARE threatened on a regular basis.  Just google "prosecutor attacked" to see some of the stories.  There is no outside security at the old or new courthouse and JSO has no funding for additional Bailiffs (and will be quite shorthanded at the new courthouse).  I'm OK with having the public defender rent space in the old federal courthouse so they can use the walkway as well, but they have made no such request.  (Less compensation than ASA's?  Really?).  The largest waste of our money has already occurred in building this monstrosity.  I'm all for saving money but the SA is right on this one.

You can google just about any word and "got shot" and get more results. Google "redneck gets shot" as an example.

They, like you, knew the risks when they took the job. They're free to work elsewhere if they don't accept the risk.

[NotNow]

Rumblefish is right.  These young prosecutors ARE threatened on a regular basis.  Just google "prosecutor attacked" to see some of the stories.  There is no outside security at the old or new courthouse and JSO has no funding for additional Bailiffs (and will be quite shorthanded at the new courthouse).  I'm OK with having the public defender rent space in the old federal courthouse so they can use the walkway as well, but they have made no such request.  (Less compensation than ASA's?  Really?).  The largest waste of our money has already occurred in building this monstrosity.  I'm all for saving money but the SA is right on this one.

You can google just about any word and "got shot" and get more results. Google "redneck gets shot" as an example.

They, like you, knew the risks when they took the job. They're free to work elsewhere if they don't accept the risk.

As in any occupation, mitigating the known risk is the responsibility of administrators and all employees.  We don't make those in manufacturing work without safety devices or have haz mat workers operate without personal protective equipment.  "They knew the risks when they took the job" is an irresponsible and insensitive statement. 

I try not to make these conversations personal.  But you guys like to drag my occupation into it.  Yes, I have known the risk both in the military and police work.  That only intensified my efforts to insure that my equipment and tactics and those of the people I was/am responsible for were the best that  I could possibly provide.  There are certainly lots of ways that the government can save money.  The safety of our employees is not where we want to go on the cheap.

[ChriswUfGator]

Rumblefish is right.  These young prosecutors ARE threatened on a regular basis.  Just google "prosecutor attacked" to see some of the stories.  There is no outside security at the old or new courthouse and JSO has no funding for additional Bailiffs (and will be quite shorthanded at the new courthouse).  I'm OK with having the public defender rent space in the old federal courthouse so they can use the walkway as well, but they have made no such request.  (Less compensation than ASA's?  Really?).  The largest waste of our money has already occurred in building this monstrosity.  I'm all for saving money but the SA is right on this one.

You can google just about any word and "got shot" and get more results. Google "redneck gets shot" as an example.

They, like you, knew the risks when they took the job. They're free to work elsewhere if they don't accept the risk.

As in any occupation, mitigating the known risk is the responsibility of administrators and all employees.  We don't make those in manufacturing work without safety devices or have haz mat workers operate without personal protective equipment.  "They knew the risks when they took the job" is an irresponsible and insensitive statement. 

I try not to make these conversations personal.  But you guys like to drag my occupation into it.  Yes, I have known the risk both in the military and police work.  That only intensified my efforts to insure that my equipment and tactics and those of the people I was/am responsible for were the best that  I could possibly provide.  There are certainly lots of ways that the government can save money.  The safety of our employees is not where we want to go on the cheap.

There's quite a difference between giving police the equipment necessary to perform their jobs, and spending millions of dollars so that a mid-level local official isn't forced to *gasp* use a public street, isn't there? Really kind of apples and oranges. And what a terrible precedent. If she actually gets away with it, then we'll have proof positive that you can justify literally anything, no matter how asinine, by playing up vague "safety" concerns while being plain old pushy.

[NotNow]

I've been in the courtroom more than a few times when a defendant has "vaguely"  threatened a young ASA with their life.  It is a valid concern.  The "terrible precedent" is a $400M county courthouse.  The walkway would cost under a million, and I'll just agree to disagree...again.