MGM scouts Jacksonville as potential site for Resort Casino

[Tacachale]

Beneficiaries of pork often don't think of it as pork. Or at least they don't care.

Here the legislation requires investors to put 2 billion into a project. Where else would it go besides Miami? Who else would even remotely benefit from it, outside of Miami?

[tufsu1]

I would think folks could invest $2B for a project in Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Naples, Orlando, and maybe even Tampa

[Tacachale]

I would think folks could invest $2B for a project in Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Naples, Orlando, and maybe even Tampa

No. These would all go in the Miami area (ft lauderdale is part of the Miami area). And theyre not even trying to hide that they would compete with the Seminole casinos.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-11-11/news/os-gambling-debate-tiger-bay-20111111_1_new-casinos-department-of-gaming-control-destination-casinos

[tufsu1]

yes...I know where the proposed casinos are....but you asked where else someone would spend $2B on a project...thus my answer

[Jason]

Sounds to me like the MGM representative is just fishing to see what kind of money we can line his pockets with in order to entice him to build here.  It'll most definitely end up down south (although I would love to see it on the riverfront along Bay St.).

[Tacachale]

^Here's the deal. However people want to parse it, currently, this thing is as explicit a Miami area pork barrel project as pork barrel projects ever are.

Currently, the Seminole Tribe of Florida gets the vast majority of its revenue from exactly two sources: tax-free cigarette sales on their reservations, and gaming, where high stakes bingo is the big show. The Tribe were pioneers of Indian gaming as a creative way of capitalizing on opportunities available to them as a sovereign entity with a government-to-government relationship with the US federal government. The Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida, Florida's other federally recognized tribe, also capitalizes on Indian gaming, and it provides the bulk of their income as well. For 30 years the State of Florida has held that it does not want widespread legal gambling in state lands, but that regulated Indian gaming is acceptable as a major income boost for the tribes. It also provides the state with $100 million in income a year via the revenue sharing agreement with the Seminole Tribe of Florida.

The sponsors of this bill are explicit: there will be no casinos outside of the Miami area. For various legalistic reasons they don't want there to be. All they want is some big resort pork in their districts, the state's contractual obligations with the Seminoles be damned. Additionally, the $2 billion dollar price tag ensures that (1) regardless of anything else South Florida will be the only option for these things and (2) it will cannibalize a ton of business from existing casinos, particularly the Indian casinos.

It takes a pretty warped sensibility to look at an Indian tribe and say, "those guys are doing too well for themselves. We better change state law to take them down a peg". But that's basically what they're doing here.

This MGM representative is speaking in hypotheticals: if this measure is changed even more to allow casinos outside of South Florida, and to lower the investment cap to make it feasible in other areas, of course they will be looking into putting them elsewhere, perhaps Jacksonville. But we should not support something because it has the potential to maybe, perhaps benefit us if it changes significantly.

[Tacachale]

Oh, and the state economists are saying this project will yield a modest revenue increase at best - especially if casinos were built outside of South Florida.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/11/2498017_p2/florida-economists-casino-revenue.html

[tufsu1]

The sponsors of this bill are explicit: there will be no casinos outside of the Miami area. For various legalistic reasons they don't want there to be. All they want is some big resort pork in their districts, the state's contractual obligations with the Seminoles be damned.

actually, it is because of the Seminoles that this is restricted to the Miami area.

as noted in your post above mine, this is all about the state's contract with the tribe....it allows for other gaming in south Florida, but gives them exclusive rights to true casino offerings anywhere else in the state...if those rules are changes, then the $ the tribe guarantees the state every year goes away!

[Tacachale]

^No, not really. Besides the Indian casinos, the state doesn't allow more than limited gambling because it historically hasn't wanted it. That's the reason we signed the contract with the Seminoles in 2010, not the other way around. The Seminoles' exclusive rights to casinos don't apply to Miami partially because that's where the Miccosukee have their casino.

Miami-area pork bringers are now decrying the Seminole "monopoly" (in place for 1 year) because they want to change state law so they can do what they do - bring pork to their districts. Plain and simple.

[tufsu1]

one man's pork is another man's economic stimulus

Let's be real....the Genting Group wants to build a mixed-use resort on Biscayne Bay in Miami...4 hotels, 2 condo towers, 50+ restaurants/bars, a shopping mall, and yes, a casino...employing 15,000 people during construction and more when it opens.

Clearly there are some issues to resolve here but there is potential for this to be a pretty cool project....and its connected to the MetroMover too!

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/14/2407173/genting-unveils-plan-for-miami.html

[Tacachale]

If it's such a cool project I'm sure it will be successful without the casino element, and therefore without the need to alter state law and negate our standing compound with the Seminole Tribe, for negligible benefit to the state as a whole.

[hightowerlover]

Have you guys ever been in a casino in the south?  The core customer isn't the James Bond type, it's the paycheck to paycheck poor person, the retiree looking to make a quick buck, chain smokers and trailer trash.  That's what makes Jacksonville a viable option.  The proximity to GA helps too I am sure, as GA bans anything fun.

[duvaldude08]

Have you guys ever been in a casino in the south?  The core customer isn't the James Bond type, it's the paycheck to paycheck poor person, the retiree looking to make a quick buck, chain smokers and trailer trash.  That's what makes Jacksonville a viable option.  The proximity to GA helps too I am sure, as GA bans anything fun.

So I guess that would be the same reason Miami is an option also correct? Case in point, your post makes no sense.

[tufsu1]

If it's such a cool project I'm sure it will be successful without the casino element, and therefore without the need to alter state law and negate our standing compound with the Seminole Tribe, for negligible benefit to the state as a whole.

But we altered state law to allow for the Seminole deal...so what's the difference?

[Tacachale]

If it's such a cool project I'm sure it will be successful without the casino element, and therefore without the need to alter state law and negate our standing compound with the Seminole Tribe, for negligible benefit to the state as a whole.

But we altered state law to allow for the Seminole deal...so what's the difference?

The state didn't alter its laws to allow for the Seminole deal. States have no power to prohibit Indian gaming; they can only regulate it. The 2010 compound was a negotiated contract, allowing the tribes to offer banked games like blackjack and making official what was already the reality - giving them exclusive rights to casino gambling in the state (with some exceptions for Dade and Broward). In exchange, the tribe shares its new revenue with the state. All of this is done according to federal laws decided decades ago.

This new measure, on the other hand, requires (1) legalizing the expansion of casino gambling in the State of Florida, (2) breaking our standing contract with the Seminole, (3) establishing a gaming commission whole-cloth, and finally, (4) swallowing the idea that all this will somehow have an appreciable economic benefit for Florida as a whole.