The Price of Sprawl: Are We Bankrupting Our Future?

[dougskiles]

well there's that...there are also those that went outside for better schools, more land, or for affordability (drive until you qualify).

And the homebuilding/mortgage/real estate industry has been selling the american public that the american dream is to own a home.  Our government has been in on the act, too.

For far too long, it has been the standard for success.  Ironic that it is now the greatest source of stress for most americans.

[peestandingup]

How did things end up this way?  The future was suppose to bring a better lifestyle and better things to us.  We had flight, cars, the internet, we even reached the moon!  How is it the cities built way back when ended up being better than what we have now?  How did the future of city planning end up worst then the past?

Because sprawling growth is easy. Smart planning actually takes effort.

My whole take on this is that there are many cities in our country (Jax included) that just doesn't get it, and it shows. If there's one thing this housing/economic crisis has shown us it's that the way we've been going about things is wrong. Growth itself isn't wrong, its the just the lazy type of easy sprawly growth is. Its unsustainable & actually makes our lives much more difficult/unfulfilling in the long run in a number of ways.

But now, cities such as ours are trying to prop up that old way because they're not capable of thinking outside the box & seeing things for what they really are, so they'll keep trying to force it. And in the process wreck any chances of pulling out of it, so it'll just get deeper & deeper until it ends by the force of it all (meaning the cities themselves can't sustain what they've done).

Its unfortunate, but I honestly don't have a good outlook on these types of "lazy growth" cities. They're pulling funds left & right for things that would actually help the situation (stuff that's long overdue) & instead are putting it towards the thing that caused the problem in the first place, one that which has no future anyway. They might as well be flushing the money down the toilet. But good luck trying to convince them.

[JeffreyS]

How did things end up this way?  The future was suppose to bring a better lifestyle and better things to us.  We had flight, cars, the internet, we even reached the moon!  How is it the cities built way back when ended up being better than what we have now?  How did the future of city planning end up worst then the past?

Because sprawling growth is easy. Smart planning actually takes effort.

A very clear and to the point response. +1

I am not against suburban development if  Impact fees and taxes on the homeowners the sprawl is 100% paid for plus a little to the general fund.  In other words sustainable.

[simms3]

Very nicely done article.

[jcjohnpaint]

So, I am sorry if I have to ask this question...but, why does a city like San Diego Grow so compact when a city like Jax grows so sparse.  What is put in place to force San Diego (as an example) to grow so dense.  I guess you can use LA as an example as well.  If you look at Satellite images of Jacksonville/ The development patterns look so... how do you say... half ass!

[jcjohnpaint]

Sorry, but forgot to add ?

[north miami]

So, I am sorry if I have to ask this question...but, why does a city like San Diego Grow so compact when a city like Jax grows so sparse.  What is put in place to force San Diego (as an example) to grow so dense.  I guess you can use LA as an example as well.  If you look at Satellite images of Jacksonville/ The development patterns look so... how do you say... half ass!

California Coastal Commission has guided (LIMITED) growth "pressure".

See too examples further north- Marin County adjacent to San Francisco.Wine Country public lands complex.
California had it's willing hand out during the era of National Forest placement- simply one element of an entrenched 'something different' population.

What would San Francisco do with The Shipyards?

[JeffreyS]

What would San Francisco do with The Shipyards?

That is a great way to look at it. +1

[tufsu1]

So, I am sorry if I have to ask this question...but, why does a city like San Diego Grow so compact when a city like Jax grows so sparse. 

San Diego has plenty of sprawling suburbs too...in fact I took the one light rail/streetcar line for at least 45 minutes east of downtown out to Santee (yes it is cool they stil have at least have rail transit ouit there).

[tufsu1]

What would San Francisco do with The Shipyards?

That is a great way to look at it. +1

best guess....debate it for about 20 years....take a look at what they're doing with the Candlestick area as an example

[thelakelander]

San Diego's burbs are significantly more transit friendly along transit corridors.  This is because they are one of the first cities in the country to implement transit oriented land use and zoning regulations to support their public transit investments.  That alone, over the course of 30 years, is a significant factor in change in landscapes between that city and Jax, despite both having similar economic structures, demographics and locational assets.

[fsujax]

San Diego also has a very strong regional authority called the San Diego Association of Governments (SANDAG). This is a strong group of elected officials from several counties and cities in the region. With a staff of over 200 and deidcated funding, the have the resources to be the implementer of transit and foster TOD, throughout the region. They work from a regionally adopted plan called the 2050 Regional Transportation Plan (RTP). This is what we must do here as well.

[jcjohnpaint]

thanks that clears it up a bit.  When I was out there it seems like every space was developed- although I was in LA.  We seem to semi develop areas and then move on further out without thinking at all about land use.  I mean I guess this is what the conversation is always about, but how do we force developers to build more responsible.  We seem to be so lax on land use in Florida in general.  Our mindset seems to be 'let them build how ever they want or they won't build' - although we know from looking at other cities this is not true. 

[simms3]

Aside from their superior land regulation and zoning, land prices out there are so expensive such that a certain level of density combined with higher rents and home prices must be achieved for developers to make a high enough return for their investors and lenders.

In Jacksonville, everything is so cheap that "half-assed" developments are all that is required to make the required returns.  Perhaps we should completely shut the land spigot and see what happens for a year.  If nobody wants to come in, maybe we'll have to follow Atlanta's route and build out far enough as to be unsustainable before we can build up.

[Tacachale]

Aside from their superior land regulation and zoning, land prices out there are so expensive such that a certain level of density combined with higher rents and home prices must be achieved for developers to make a high enough return for their investors and lenders.

In Jacksonville, everything is so cheap that "half-assed" developments are all that is required to make the required returns.  Perhaps we should completely shut the land spigot and see what happens for a year.  If nobody wants to come in, maybe we'll have to follow Atlanta's route and build out far enough as to be unsustainable before we can build up.

Building out before we build in is the Florida Way.