commuter train could be a good start

[tufsu1]

On an annual basis, Florida takes the top 4 spots as worst cities for pedestrians....Jax. is 3rd....although, to be fair, there are serious flaws in the study methodology

[Ocklawaha]

TUFSU1, Here are your study results from my crystal ball...

JAX - AVENUES - ST AUGUSTINE  -  This will be found to be the easiest to get into operation
JAX - ORANGE PARK - GREEN COVE SPRINGS - This will be found to offer the most immediate benefits
JAX - SPRINGFIELD - AIRPORT ROAD - YULEE - This will be found to have the heaviest ridership at least as far as the Trout River, it will also be the most expensive as it requires relaying the 'S' line between downtown and Springfield Yard. The closeness of the stations, short distance overall, and speed of the trains, will cause this study to lean more toward a light-rail solution.

the feasibility study completed in 2009 had a rough risership forecast...showed that southeast line was the champ followed by southwest...the north line was a distant third.

and I actually think southwest may be the easiest to implement....when CSX mpoves trains over to the line paralleling 301, these tracks will be empty most of the day...conversely, there are 20+ trains that run daily on the southeast line between Bowden Yard and downtown.

The CSX 'A' line through Orange Park, Green Cove Springs and Palatka has one huge advantage over the FEC route for success in an embryonic commuter rail system. VISIBILITY + LACK OF A FREEWAY ALTERNATIVE.  Some 200,000 people in Northern Clay are pretty much married to US 17 and Blanding when it comes to any trip headed into downtown Jacksonville. As most of us know, and some probably suspected, Blanding ranks among the worst commutes in the nation. CSX is also a company much more likely to lay out the 'my way or the highway' mantra which makes them much harder to get along with any project they're involved in.

The FEC RY route all the way from the Southbank office towers to Nocatee is invisible and our autocentric planners don't seem to notice. In a city that has been without good transit since at least 1936, some of the same argument I've used against the HSR stands in the way of it's success... IE: 'out of sight - out of mind' and 'no record of ANY rail passenger usage since 1968.' Just the fact that those potential choice riders stuck in traffic along I-95 or US-1 may never even see the train, is enough to suggest a harder look at the CSX 'A' line. FEC as a corporation is going to be very easy to work with. I'd suggest that the high visibility of the 'A' line along Roosevelt when traffic is backed up half way down Flemming Island could be a game changer. Imagine your stuck on Roosevelt, in the thick of the traffic some early morning and right outside your car window a two car RDC train blows past you towards town.  That's a pretty big incentive to give rail a try.

In the 2009 study the highest ridership was estimated to be between the Trout River and Downtown via the CSX 'S' line. The trouble is, between downtown and the Trout the 'guesstimated' quantity/frequency of proposed stops, coupled with slower yard limit speed restrictions is what leads me to suggest this area would be better off as a San Diego style light-rail line with light-rail by day and evening, and freight train service at night. The idea of going on to the airport/airport road station would have much more merit if our 'International Airport' actually served as a hub for anything. There is also a ton of track work to be performed throughout the entirety of the Northside Route ranging from track rehabilitation to outright new construction. Bottom line is that it doesn't make sense to call for a 79 mph commuter train when your stations are only 1/2 to 1 mile appart. This is where we should be focusing on a light-rail line.

The Westside route running parallel to Beaver Street actually has high speed track, but it is not unlike the Northside line in that it is densly populated but only for a few miles. The whole reason why we should be talking with RTS in Gainesville is to provide a weighted anchors to this line both downtown and at the furthermost extreme. Doing so would really allow this train to be a hybrid commuter - regional service with stations spread far enough appart that the train would operate at track speed.

Other options. Light-rail trains could use highway medians and enter downtown along a streetcar line (streetcars are a form of light-rail). Tracks could also go in parkways, along abandoned railroad right-of-ways or parallel existing freight rail lines.

Finally, under NO condition should the sprawling plan for the JRTC include separating boarding areas for trains to the Southside from the other rail platforms, or splitting Greyhound away from the train station.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

What are we doing to improve our pedestrian/bicycle network conditions?  Whatever it is, these are the types of things that the competition has been tying in with their project's applications.  Thinking back, Salt Lake City's Sugar House Streetcar TIGER grant application was loaded with data on land use, TOD projects, greenhouse gas emissions reductions, sustainability, urban revitalization, job creation, tax revenue impact, etc.  Things that most in Jax clearly pay no attention to (yet its what the Obama Administration has been pushing).  I just don't see how asking the FTA to significantly fund two projects covering the same corridor works in Jax's best interest when we're competing for dollars from the same pot, against communities that continue to run circles around us.

[fsujax]

Ock you are right about the US 17 corridor CSX 'A' line. The only negative is CSX. If it were FEC it would be a no brainer!

[fsujax]

Doesnt the TPO have a Bike Ped Master Plan??? what are they doing with it? what is the City doing with it?

[thelakelander]

With Sunrail moving forward, it seems the answer is to outright purchase the corridor from CSX.  It has to less valuable now with Sunrail reducing the amount of hours it can be used for freight in Central Florida.

[fsujax]

that could be an option. CSX still runs the coal trains down to just north of Palatka.

[thelakelander]

Doesnt the TPO have a Bike Ped Master Plan??? what are they doing with it? what is the City doing with it?

There's a bike/pedestrian facility component of the mobility plan but that's obviously on ice.  Nevertheless, I hope JTA is including this type of stuff in its planning and application process for FTA money because the competition is.  Nevertheless, while we have "master plans", the competition is implementing.  Again, I'll just urban whipping boy Detroit as an example:

16-mile bike lane connects Detroit neighborhoods

October 9, 2011

(AP) â€" A series of bike lanes stretching 16 miles and connecting three neighborhoods has joined Detroit's popular RiverWalk and Dequindre Cut to make parts of the city more accessible to bicyclists.

The Greenlink project allows riders to travel more safely through parts of Southwest Detroit and the Corktown and Mexicantown neighborhoods.

It also is the first large scale segment of the city's Urban Non-motorized Transportation Master Plan to be completed, said Scott Clein, executive vice president of Giffels-Webster, the civil engineering and surveying consulting firm on the project.

...

The project connects the Southwest Detroit Greenway using West Vernor Highway with bike lanes and signed roadways.

A $500,000 Michigan Department of Transportation grant paid for 80 percent of the project. Other grants and fundraisers paid for the rest.

The Greater Corktown Development Corp. and the Southwest Detroit Business Association worked with Giffels-Webster on the project.

The city's non-motorized master plan, designed by Giffels-Webster, includes more than 400 miles of bike lanes, Clein said.

full article: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20111009/FREE/111009906/16-mile-bike-lane-connects-detroit-neighborhoods

[thelakelander]

that could be an option. CSX still runs the coal trains down to just north of Palatka.

They'll still run trains at night through metro Orlando when Sunrail starts operation too.

[iMarvin]

Uh iMarvin? The first required study for commuter rail was finished a couple of years ago, what TUFSU1 is speaking of is a much more in depth (and likely to happen) study.

OCKLAWAHA

Oh ok. I didn't know exactly what he was talking about. I would expect at least one study to be done, but knowing how JTA works, I just wasn't sure how far they've gotten with this project.

[iLenin]

JAX - AVENUES - ST AUGUSTINE  -  This will be found to be the easiest to get into operation

Except, it will get sabatoged for federal funding because JTA has moved forward with trying to get federal funds for  BRT paralleling it between Downtown and the Avenues.

+1

Can we just get rid of JTA? It is so ridiculous. It is like a group of buffoons and clowns that likes to honk and tonk for the last 20 years.

-Josh

Make it a plus two.
JTA has done nothing except close down half-worked ways of transit.

[Ocklawaha]

Let's highball this Commuter Rail project!

that could be an option. CSX still runs the coal trains down to just north of Palatka.

They'll still run trains at night through metro Orlando when Sunrail starts operation too.

The coal trains are a sensitive money maker for the railroad. The economy of this haul isn't just the heavy bulk shipment, but the fact that except for maintenance, fuel and crew changes, the trains NEVER STOP. Yeah, sounds crazy but these are 'unit trains', IE: An assigned set of locomotives and crews carrying cars under contract of a single commodity. The trains are filled while moving slowly through automated coal loaders, and they are emptied the same way. These trains have come under fire by the utilities in Florida for what they consider a freight monopoly charging them too much money. CSX certainly isn't the only railroad making these hauls, unit trains are one of the waves of the future of railroading, be it autos, auto or aircraft parts, or coal and phosphate.  Woe unto the employee that screws up the schedule because you are touching a sacred cash cow. We use them in Colombia to carry... COAL. (Much of which BTW is going to be handled at the new Keystone Terminal on Talleyrand). I've seen these trains in the early evening, and I would imagine we'd have to work with the railroad to make sure they have clear signals. Just a heads-up...

Here is part of the case:

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Double track, where necessary.  Two questions.

1. How many coal trains serve Palatka daily?

2. What's the service life of the Palatka plant?