How the 1% Buys and Owns Our Government

Started by FayeforCure, October 09, 2011, 11:45:44 AM

FayeforCure

Uber-Vultures: The Billionaires Who Would Pick Our President

Thursday 6 October 2011

by: Greg Palast, Truthout | Investigative Report




The Koch Brothers, from "The Joker's Wild" deck of cards by Greg Palast and Bob Grossman. Click here to view full card.


The untold story of the sources of the loot controlled by Paul "The Vulture" Singer, Ken Langone and the Kochs - and why they need to buy the White House.


Hedge fund magnate Paul Singer likes to breakfast on decayed carcasses. What he chews down is sickening, but just as nausea-inducing are his new tablemates: billionaires Ken Langone and the Koch Brothers, Charles and David.

Singer has called together the billionaire boys' club for the purpose of picking our next president for us. The old-fashioned way of choosing presidents - democracy and counting ballots and all that - has never been a favorite of this pack. I can tell you that from my investigations of each of these gentlemen for The Guardian. When the Statue of Liberty has nightmares, she dreams that these guys will combine to seize America via a cash-and-carry coup d'état.

Welcome to the nightmare. Singer, Langone and the Kochs last month decided to elect Chris Christie for us. The New Jersey governor's pseudocampaign went belly up before it began. But that's beside the point. Now that the Supreme Court has effectively ended campaign finance limits and allowed secretive contributions through "corporations," this new combine of the ultrawealthy should not be viewed as just a political threat to the Democrats, but as a threat to democracy.


Let me give you a rundown from my sulphur-scented files on these men who would be king-makers.

Billionaire 1: Ken Langone

Langone likes to be known as the founder of Home Depot, just your local tool guy in a blue apron with a little bag of screws.

But he was also the man, with his right-wing partners, behind Database Technologies (DBT). It was in my first investigation of Langone in 2000 that I discovered that DBT had created a list of several thousand "felons" - most of them black, all of them innocent, all of them purged from Florida's voter rolls by DBT's client, Katherine Harris. And Langone's company knew exactly what was going on.

What qualifies Langone to pick our president?  In his own words: "I'm nuts; I'm rich."

Billionaires 2 and 3: David and Charles Koch

You think you've read all about the billionaire brothers.  Well, there's more:

In 1996, an FBI agent, Richard Elroy, told my team that oil had been pilfered from the Osage Indian reservation in Oklahoma. He and other G-men filmed the filch-theft, say witnesses, personally ordered by Charles Koch. A few barrels here, a few barrels there.

It all added up: to about a billion and a half dollars in looted petroleum, says one expert, a third of the Koch fortune at the time. David and Charles shared in the booty via their private company, Koch Industries.

Billionaire 4: Paul Singer

Now we get to the carrion king, Paul Singer, known as Singer The Vulture. I didn't give him the moniker. The name Vulture was tagged on him and his speculator colleagues by the prime minister of Britain and the World Bank. Recently, former United Nations envoy Winston Tubman suggested I ask Singer or his business associates, "Do you know you're causing babies to die?"

What does this guy do - put poison in kiddies' milk? Worse: he takes away the milk.

Singer's modus operandi is to find some forgotten tiny debt owed by a very poor nation (Peru and Congo were on his menu). He waits for the United States and European taxpayers to forgive the poor nations' debts, then waits at bit longer for offers of food aid, medicine and investment loans. Then Singer pounces, legally grabbing at every resource and all the money going to the desperate country. Trade stops, funds freeze and an entire economy is effectively held hostage.

Singer then demands aid-giving nations pay monstrous ransoms to let trade resume.  At BBC TV's Newsnight, we learned that Singer demanded $400 million dollars from the Congo for a debt he picked up for less than $10 million. If he doesn't get his 4,000 percent profit, he can effectively starve the nation. I don't mean that figuratively - I mean starve as in no food. In Congo-Brazzaville last year, one-fourth of all deaths of children under five were caused by malnutrition.

For BBC, I tried to ask Vulture Singer the diplomat's question about the baby killing, but I couldn't get past George Gershwin.  (In the New York office tower housing the billionaires' roost, a Gershwin lookalike in top hat and tails plays show tunes on a grand piano for Singer's grand entrance.)

And it's not just poor African carcasses that tempt Singer. Indeed, during my investigation for my new book, "Vultures' Picnic," I discovered that Singer's first big vulture attack was on American asbestos victims.

Background:  The executives of three companies - vermiculate mine operator WR Grace, wallboard manufacturer USG and building materials company Owens Corning - knew that asbestos exposure in their respective operations was killing their workers. When caught and sued, the companies filed for bankruptcy, agreeing to pay almost all of their earnings to the people who were dying and injured by their asbestos.

But Singer had a better idea. These companies, as you can imagine, were worth next to nothing, and Singer bought Owens Corning for a song.

If he could cut the amount paid to the victims, Singer could boost Corning's value big time. So, a public relations campaign began, attacking the dying workers, saying they were all faking it.

One attacker was a guy named George W. Bush.


In January 2005, President Dubya held a televised meeting to promote an "expert" who pronounced that over half a million workers suing Singer's industry were liars. If workers couldn't breathe, he said to the grinning president, it wasn't the fault of asbestos.

The "expert" was not a doctor, but, notably, his "research" was partly funded by ... Paul Singer. And so was Bush. Since the death of Enron's Ken Lay, Singer and his vulture flock at Singer's hedge fund, Elliott International, had become the top contributors to the Republican National Committee. It's hard to measure his largesse exactly because some of that help comes in through the side door. For example, Singer put money behind the Swift Boat smear on Bush's opponent, John Kerry.


The legal, political and public relations attacks on the dying workers chiseled away the compensation expected to be paid by the asbestos companies, boosting their net worth. Singer then flipped Corning, selling it for a neat billion-dollar profit.

It's legal. It's brilliant. It's sick. It's Singer
.

One of my favorite Singer scores was his successful scheme to legally loot the Treasury of Peru. The nation's US lawyer told me, aghast, how Singer let Peru's rogue President, Alberto Fujimori, flee his nation to avoid murder charges. Singer had seized Fujimori's getaway plane. The Vulture named his price: one of Fujimori's last acts as president before he fled was to order his dirt-poor nation to pay Singer $58 million.

Why the Billionaires Need to Buy the White House

A Koch Industries executive (not knowing he was being taped) said he had asked Charles Koch, who already had a billion from an inheritance, why Koch was pocketing a few bucks a week from poor American Indians.  Koch told him, "I want my fair share, and that's all of it."

And "all of it," of course, includes the White House.

Putting Bush in the White House was worth his weight in gold to these gents - more, in fact. And now, the Kochs, Singer and Langone have teamed up to pick a candidate they pray can take back their real estate at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

The Gimme for Langone

Langone's firm DBT's "felon" scrub list included only innocent people, so you certainly wouldn't find the name "Langone" on it. In 2004, New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer charged Langone with conspiracy, accusing the billionaire with subverting a stock exchange regulator's investigation into monkey business by Langone's investment bank.

A technicality ended the civil action on the conspiracy charge.



DBT's Florida Felon scrub list (Langone's firm) and Willie Steen, a Black veteran who was wrongly purged from the voter rolls. (Image: BBC Television, Bush Family Fortunes.)

But now, Obama's new banking and securities reforms, albeit weak, give regulators new enforcement powers and provide an extra independent eye on stock market shenanigans. For Langone, picking the president means closing the regulatory eye.

The Gimme for The Kochs

FBI man Elroy told our investigators that the Justice Department was going to let the FBI cuff Charles Koch on criminal charges for the theft of the Osage Indian oil.  But then, fumes Elroy, Koch's well-funded buddies, then-senators Bob Dole and Don Nickles, stepped in - and Koch walked. No charges.

Dennis DeConcini, then an Arizona senator, wanted to know why criminal or civil charges were never brought against the Kochs.  That was not a wise question to ask. The senator told me that the Kochs threatened his political destruction if the Congressional committee he chaired continued with its investigations of the theft of Native oil. He continued, but his political career did not.

During the Clinton administration, Koch Industries was charged with criminal violations of the Clean Water Act. Under President Bush, the charges, but not the water, were cleaned up.

In other words, crime pays - if you get to pick the sheriff
.

The Gimme for Paul Singer

Paul Singer had placed a big bet on the asbestos industry, then, set out to fix the casino, helping install Bush in the White House. That is, he had a president willing to beat up on asbestos workers and push for so-called "tort reform" that undermined these victims' claims. What the victims lost, Singer gained.

But there's trouble on the horizon for Singer. In 2007, Britain outlawed Singer and all other Vulture speculators in Third World debt from collecting their pound of flesh in the United Kingdom. Other European nations are following suit.

Several US Congressmen are pushing a UK-style prohibition on Singer's activities. (Even Chevron Corporation is complaining about the Vulture attacks. When Chevron calls bankers unscrupulous, they've got to be really unscrupulous.) Without a veto pen over Congress, Singer stands to lose hundreds of millions of dollars
.

Singer plays defense, but is best at offense: to collect on some of his claims against Argentina, his lobbyists have pushed a bill in Congress to put an economic chokehold on trade with the South American nation. Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton blocked this crazy attack on our ally.  As a result, Singer is not a happy gaucho. There will be blood. Obama will have to pay.

The Gimme for Them All

There's one thing that every billionaire wants: another billion. And that's threatened by Obama's plan to tax the "carried interest" tax deferment.

Guys like Singer and Langone don't pay taxes like you and I do. While we pay taxes on income, the profits from vulture speculation and arbitrage are often recorded as "carried interest," effectively not taxed.  It's a billion-dollar benefit for the billionaires, and every Republican candidate has sworn to keep this loophole open and make sure you and I pay Singers' taxes for him.

Unfortunately for Singer, the Kochs and Langone, the GOP candidates currently kissing the billionaires' behinds don't seem electable.

So the Billionaire Boys Club prodded Gov. Christie, a bully-boy from Jersey, to muscle his way into the Oval Office. Christie didn't fly, no surprise. But whether they pick the GOP candidate or retreat to their old tactics of smear-from-the-rear, the fragile thing called democracy stands little chance against the tsunamic powers of the quartet's combined checkbooks.


http://www.truth-out.org/uber-vultures-billionaires-who-would-pick-our-president/1317769580

In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy.
Basic American bi-partisan tradition: Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman were honorary chairmen of Planned Parenthood

buckethead

No mention of Buffet? He's one of the "good guys"...

FayeforCure

Quote from: buckethead on October 09, 2011, 12:24:21 PM
No mention of Buffet? He's one of the "good guys"...

I'm all ears.......please tell me about the dirty business of Buffett for which he needs to be sure he has a veto pen in the White House.
In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy.
Basic American bi-partisan tradition: Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman were honorary chairmen of Planned Parenthood

buckethead

Quote from: buckethead on October 09, 2011, 12:41:33 PM
Buying $5B of goldman with a 5% premium and rights to purchase stocks at a guaranteed price for 2 years. (Paulson/Bush era... any covert taxpayer guarantees there?)

Then there's that little chat at the white house with the current president which was nothing more than small talk... three days later, the Oracle buys $5B of BaC with eerily similar terms to the goldman deal. No taxpaer guarantees there ;).

Then my main road dog Mr Buffet goes on a rant about billionaires needing to pay their fair share of taxes, and as a solution offers a raise in INCOME taxes on those earning $1mm annually. As an economist, surely you see how disingenuous that is.

Does this make him a king maker? I don't know, but kings seem to answer his calls.

Then there is Soros... oddly (to my mind) a man who seems to believe what he says publicly (and in his writings). I sometimes think he is duped by politicians promising ... change.

FayeforCure

#4
So it's disingenuous for someone to make money off of the system and then be willing to pay a more fair share of income taxes?

You have to be uber-greedy and say you don't want to pay any taxes?

Are you looking for greed consistency?

What "illegal/immoral" act did Buffet do for which he needed protection in the White House?

Profiting off of abestos victims by claiming that over half a million dying workers were faking it is the ultimate of corporate greed.

QuotePresident Dubya held a televised meeting to promote an "expert" who pronounced that over half a million workers suing Singer's industry were liars. If workers couldn't breathe, he said to the grinning president, it wasn't the fault of asbestos.

The "expert" was not a doctor, but, notably, his "research" was partly funded by ... Paul Singer. And so was Bush.
In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy.
Basic American bi-partisan tradition: Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman were honorary chairmen of Planned Parenthood

buckethead


civil42806

"So it's disingenuous for someone to make money off of the system and then be willing to pay a more fair share of income taxes?"


Okay I'm confused can you please spell out when and in what situation is it acceptable to make money off the system!

I assume John Mica had nothing to do with this

JeffreyS

I thought they owned the government by getting developer insiders on the finance sub committees of city hall. :)
Lenny Smash

FayeforCure

Aha, here is another nefarious, and not entirely unexpected connection..........



Long ties to Koch brothers key to Cain's campaign
By RYAN J. FOLEY - Associated Press | AP â€"  1 hr 15 mins ago


IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) â€" Leading Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain has cast himself as the outsider, the pizza magnate with real-world experience who will bring fresh ideas to the nation's capital. But Cain's economic ideas, support and organization have close ties to two billionaire brothers who bankroll right-leaning causes through their group Americans for Prosperity.

Cain's campaign manager and a number of aides have worked for Americans for Prosperity, or AFP, the advocacy group founded with support from billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, which lobbies for lower taxes and less government regulation and spending. Cain credits a businessman who served on an AFP advisory board with helping devise his "9-9-9" plan to rewrite the nation's tax code. And his years of speaking at AFP events have given the businessman and radio host a network of loyal grassroots fans.

The once little-known businessman's political activities are getting fresh scrutiny these days since he soared to the top of some national polls.

His links to the Koch brothers could undercut his outsider, non-political image among people who detest politics as usual and candidates connected with the party machine.

AFP tapped Cain as the public face of its "Prosperity Expansion Project," and he traveled the country in 2005 and 2006 speaking to activists who were starting state-based AFP chapters from Wisconsin to Virginia. Through his AFP work he met Mark Block, a longtime Wisconsin Republican operative hired to lead that state's AFP chapter in 2005 as he rebounded from an earlier campaign scandal that derailed his career.

Block and Cain sometimes traveled together as they built up AFP: Cain was the charismatic speaker preaching the ills of big government; Block was the operative helping with nuts and bolts.

When President Barack Obama's election helped spawn the tea party, Cain was positioned to take advantage. He became a draw at growing AFP-backed rallies, impressing activists with a mix of humor and hard-hitting rhetoric against Obama's stimulus, health care and budget policies.

Block is now Cain's campaign manager. Other aides who had done AFP work were also brought on board.

Cain's spokeswoman Ellen Carmichael, who recently left the campaign, was an AFP coordinator in Louisiana. His campaign's outside law firm is representing AFP in a case challenging Wisconsin campaign finance regulations. At least six other current and former paid employees and consultants for Cain's campaign have worked for AFP in various capacities.

And Cain has credited Rich Lowrie, a Cleveland businessman who served on AFP's board of advisors from 2005 to 2008, with being a key economic adviser and with helping to develop his plan to cut the corporate tax rate to 9 percent, impose a national sales tax of 9 percent and set a flat income tax rate of 9 percent

"He's got a national network now that perhaps he wouldn't have had 15 or 20 years ago because of his work with AFP," said Republican Party of Wisconsin Vice Chair Brian Schimming, who has introduced Cain at events in Wisconsin. "For a presidential candidate, that's obviously helpful to have."

He said Cain was smart to hire Block.

Cain's recent victories in straw polls in Florida and Minnesota highlight the importance of organizing supporters and Block, who has a deep network in the tea party, "gets that side of it," Schimming said.

But Block has had his problems as well. He settled a suit in 2001 accusing him of illegally coordinating a Wisconsin Supreme Court justice's re-election with an outside group. Block agreed to pay $15,000 and sit out of politics for three years.

While Cain is quick to promote his career at the helm of the Godfather's Pizza chain, his ties to AFP aren't something the candidate appears eager to highlight. Cain does not include his AFP work on his biography on his website, but spokesman J.D. Gordon said Sunday that Cain was "proud of his business record" and his association with the group.

"He has made a lot of important connections through AFP," Gordon said, pointing to Block and Lowrie, among others.

And Cain continues to work with the group.

While several other candidates will be at an Iowa Republican Party dinner on Nov. 4, Cain is scheduled to be in
Washington mingling with activists at AFP's annual "Defending the American Dream" summit. He is the only confirmed presidential candidate for the event.

AFP spokesman Levi Russell said Cain has spoken at dozens of AFP rallies and events over the years to support a number of the group's activities. AFP has often covered his travel expenses or paid a "pretty modest honorarium" but he has not been paid since becoming a presidential candidate, he said.

"He's a dynamic, pro-business speaker that connects well with our activists," Russell said. "AFP is a very large organization, and there is a natural overlap between Cain's message of fiscal responsibility and the basic principles that AFP advocates for."

A spokeswoman for the Koch brothers did not respond to The Associated Press's request for comment on Cain.

To some liberals, Cain's rise with the help of AFP shows the incredible influence that outside groups controlled by super-wealthy individuals with specific agendas can have on the political process.

"Herman Cain is the first presidential corporate spokes-candidate," said Scot Ross, a liberal activist who leads One Wisconsin Now, which has often mocked AFP as a front group for corporate interests. "The best way to have your issues talked about in the issue debate is to have a candidate in your pocket with snappy comebacks and easily branded policy papers which mask how destructive they would be."

AFP's agenda also includes weakening private and public sector unions, opposing environmental regulations and undoing Obama's health care reform law, among other policies. But before the tea party and Obama, Cain worked with AFP on more local issues.

In 2006, he campaigned all over Wisconsin in support of a proposed constitutional amendment that would have limited state government spending. A slew of officials and analysts said the plan would have ultimately devastated government services, and the Republican-controlled Legislature eventually backed off it.

In a statement announcing Cain's tour, AFP sent out a press release touting his "in-depth understanding of the battle to control out-of-control government taxes and spending." Block promised that Cain was a speaker that activists would not want to miss.


In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy.
Basic American bi-partisan tradition: Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman were honorary chairmen of Planned Parenthood

FayeforCure

#9
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 17, 2011, 02:07:07 PM
Aha, here is another nefarious, and not entirely unexpected connection..........



Long ties to Koch brothers key to Cain's campaign
By RYAN J. FOLEY - Associated Press | AP â€"  1 hr 15 mins ago


IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) â€" Leading Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain has cast himself as the outsider, the pizza magnate with real-world experience who will bring fresh ideas to the nation's capital. But Cain's economic ideas, support and organization have close ties to two billionaire brothers who bankroll right-leaning causes through their group Americans for Prosperity.

Cain's campaign manager and a number of aides have worked for Americans for Prosperity, or AFP, the advocacy group founded with support from billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, which lobbies for lower taxes and less government regulation and spending. Cain credits a businessman who served on an AFP advisory board with helping devise his "9-9-9" plan to rewrite the nation's tax code. And his years of speaking at AFP events have given the businessman and radio host a network of loyal grassroots fans.

The once little-known businessman's political activities are getting fresh scrutiny these days since he soared to the top of some national polls.

His links to the Koch brothers could undercut his outsider, non-political image among people who detest politics as usual and candidates connected with the party machine.

AFP tapped Cain as the public face of its "Prosperity Expansion Project," and he traveled the country in 2005 and 2006 speaking to activists who were starting state-based AFP chapters from Wisconsin to Virginia. Through his AFP work he met Mark Block, a longtime Wisconsin Republican operative hired to lead that state's AFP chapter in 2005 as he rebounded from an earlier campaign scandal that derailed his career.



But Block has had his problems as well. He settled a suit in 2001 accusing him of illegally coordinating a Wisconsin Supreme Court justice's re-election with an outside group. Block agreed to pay $15,000 and sit out of politics for three years.

While Cain is quick to promote his career at the helm of the Godfather's Pizza chain, his ties to AFP aren't something the candidate appears eager to highlight. Cain does not include his AFP work on his biography on his website, but spokesman J.D. Gordon said Sunday that Cain was "proud of his business record" and his association with the group.

"He has made a lot of important connections through AFP," Gordon said, pointing to Block and Lowrie, among others.

And Cain continues to work with the group.

While several other candidates will be at an Iowa Republican Party dinner on Nov. 4, Cain is scheduled to be in
Washington mingling with activists at AFP's annual "Defending the American Dream" summit. He is the only confirmed presidential candidate for the event.


A spokeswoman for the Koch brothers did not respond to The Associated Press's request for comment on Cain.

To some liberals, Cain's rise with the help of AFP shows the incredible influence that outside groups controlled by super-wealthy individuals with specific agendas can have on the political process.

"Herman Cain is the first presidential corporate spokes-candidate," said Scot Ross, a liberal activist who leads One Wisconsin Now, which has often mocked AFP as a front group for corporate interests. "The best way to have your issues talked about in the issue debate is to have a candidate in your pocket with snappy comebacks and easily branded policy papers which mask how destructive they would be."

AFP's agenda also includes weakening private and public sector unions, opposing environmental regulations and undoing Obama's health care reform law, among other policies. But before the tea party and Obama, Cain worked with AFP on more local issues.

In 2006, he campaigned all over Wisconsin in support of a proposed constitutional amendment that would have limited state government spending. A slew of officials and analysts said the plan would have ultimately devastated government services, and the Republican-controlled Legislature eventually backed off it.

In a statement announcing Cain's tour, AFP sent out a press release touting his "in-depth understanding of the battle to control out-of-control government taxes and spending." Block promised that Cain was a speaker that activists would not want to miss.

Well along with that arrogance comes sexual harassment........

QuoteIn New York on Monday, Bialek said Cain â€" an acquaintance â€" made a sexual advance in mid-July 1997, when she had travelled to Washington to have dinner with him in hopes he could help her find work or get her job back at the National Restaurant Association.

The two met in Washington, she said, and after having dinner were in a car for what she thought was a ride to an office building.

"Instead of going into the offices he suddenly reached over and he put his hand on my leg, under my skirt toward my genitals," she said. "He also pushed my head toward his crotch."

She said she asked Cain what he was doing and recalled he replied, "You said you want a job, right?"

None of Cain's other accusers has provided details as graphic as Bialek's account. But Joel Bennett, an attorney who represents one of them, said her details were "similar in nature" to what his client encountered.

Are we finally going to take notice?

QuoteBialek stood by her accusation when asked about it Tuesday morning in the wake of Cain's denial, saying in a nationally broadcast interview that she had "nothing to gain" by coming forward. She said "it's not about me. I'm not running for president."

Cain planned to address the latest furor in more detail Tuesday afternoon in Phoenix as he seeks to stem the fallout of a controversy stretching into its second week.

"I'm going to talk about it," Cain said, adding "we are taking this head on" â€" a reversal from just days ago when told reporters he was done answering questions about the matter.

That was before Bialek went on national television Monday and provided a name and a face to what had, until then, been at least three anonymous sexual harassment allegations against Cain. Bialek's accusations â€" that Cain groped her in a car after she asked for his help finding a job â€" spun his unorthodox campaign into an uncertain new territory.

An upstart in the presidential race, Cain shot to the top of public opinion polls and emerged, however temporarily, in surveys as the main conservative challenger to Mitt Romney. Tea party activists and conservatives unenthused with the former Massachusetts governor have flocked to Cain's tell-it-like-it-is style and self-styled outsider image in recent weeks.

There were, however, growing signs of unease in conservative circles as, one by one, a handful of women claimed Cain acted inappropriately toward them while the head of the National Restaurant Association in the 1990s.

"He deserves a fair chance. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass. These are not anonymous allegations anymore unfortunately," said New Hampshire conservative activist Jennifer Horn, who last week had condemned media coverage of the allegations against Cain. "He does need to take another step and answer a few more questions."

"Oh," exclaimed South Carolina GOP Chairman Chad Connelly said when told details from Bialek's news conference. He said character issues matter in a state where the last governor tearfully confessed an affair and the current governor faced unproven allegations from two men that she had affairs. "Our voters care about moral attitude," Connelly said. "Character does matter."

http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/woman-accuses-cain-bold-sexual-advance
In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy.
Basic American bi-partisan tradition: Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman were honorary chairmen of Planned Parenthood

second_pancake

There's a huge difference between sexual harassment "claims" and actual proof of wrong-doings such as, hmm, I don't know, actually having sex with multiple individuals as a standing president and then blatantly lying about it, or, I don't know, accusations of rape while an acting governor with the assistance of the state patrol.

Character is important, yes, but ultimately no one can prove what actually happened 10+ years ago other than someone said something happened and decided to bring it up now instead of then.

I will say, Cain's campaign manager is an idiot though. They knew about the one charge and subsequent settlement and yet weren't prepared in the least bit to address it which is just ridiculous.  At the very least, they should've arranged for him to come out and say something to the effect of, "There was an accusation and we both agreed to settle.  Due to the legal nature of the accusation, I can't not offer further comment."  I really have no respect for any person who can't take personal responsibility...both this woman (who has an interesting history), and Cain.
"What objectivity and the study of philosophy requires is not an 'open mind,' but an active mind - a mind able and eagerly willing to examine ideas, but to examine them criticially."

second_pancake

Quote from: stephendare on November 08, 2011, 12:41:04 PM
Quote from: second_pancake on November 08, 2011, 12:39:13 PM
There's a huge difference between sexual harassment "claims" and actual proof of wrong-doings such as, hmm, I don't know, actually having sex with multiple individuals as a standing president and then blatantly lying about it, or, I don't know, accusations of rape while an acting governor with the assistance of the state patrol.

Character is important, yes, but ultimately no one can prove what actually happened 10+ years ago other than someone said something happened and decided to bring it up now instead of then.

I will say, Cain's campaign manager is an idiot though. They knew about the one charge and subsequent settlement and yet weren't prepared in the least bit to address it which is just ridiculous.  At the very least, they should've arranged for him to come out and say something to the effect of, "There was an accusation and we both agreed to settle.  Due to the legal nature of the accusation, I can't not offer further comment."  I really have no respect for any person who can't take personal responsibility...both this woman (who has an interesting history), and Cain.

Second Pancake.

I mean no disrespect at all by this question, but I am terribly curious.  How old are you?

Old enough to know better but too young to care ;-)
"What objectivity and the study of philosophy requires is not an 'open mind,' but an active mind - a mind able and eagerly willing to examine ideas, but to examine them criticially."

Non-RedNeck Westsider

Quote"The fact is that Ms. Bialek has had a long and troubled history, from the courts to personal finances - which may help explain why she has come forward 14 years after an alleged incident with Mr. Cain, powered by celebrity attorney and long term Democrat donor Gloria Allred," the email says.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57320652-503544/herman-cain-fires-back-at-accuser-sharon-bialek/

Really?  Does any of this even matter anymore?  The attention whore ambulance chaser attorney  ::) is here.

A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
-Douglas Adams

Captain Zissou

In my opinion, this whole 1% vitriol is just another way for lazy people to absolve themselves of their daily responsibilities.  Have these people ever tried to accomplish something with the odds stacked against them?? 

FYI- The top 1% is people who earn over $250k a year.  It's also people with a net worth of $1.2M or more......  Those are the real criminals for sure!!!!!

The argument should be against the top 1,000 wealthiest people in America, they actually run things.  That just shows you the education of the OWS loafers.  They're launching a campaign against doctors, psychologists, some accountants, successful pharmacists, executive chefs, the manager of your local Macy's, hundreds of corporate Urban Outfitters employees, the top guys at Tom's shoes, hemp manufacturing execs, and attorneys, whether they know it or not.

FayeforCure

#14
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 08, 2011, 04:38:57 PM
In my opinion, this whole 1% vitriol is just another way for lazy people to absolve themselves of their daily responsibilities.  Have these people ever tried to accomplish something with the odds stacked against them?? 

FYI- The top 1% is people who earn over $250k a year.  It's also people with a net worth of $1.2M or more......  Those are the real criminals for sure!!!!!

The argument should be against the top 1,000 wealthiest people in America, they actually run things.  That just shows you the education of the OWS loafers.  They're launching a campaign against doctors, psychologists, some accountants, successful pharmacists, executive chefs, the manager of your local Macy's, hundreds of corporate Urban Outfitters employees, the top guys at Tom's shoes, hemp manufacturing execs, and attorneys, whether they know it or not.

Wow Capt Zissou, looks like what you call are the "lazy people" are better informed than you are.

The top 1% makes an average of more than $878,000

You are talking about the top 5% to 1% that includes doctors, psychologists, some accountants, successful pharmacists, executive chefs and attoneys that make an average of about $211, 000, and they actually belong to the 99%!!!

So as you say the 99% is right to rail against the 1% who control everything.

In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy.
Basic American bi-partisan tradition: Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman were honorary chairmen of Planned Parenthood