New Parking Meters

[Ocklawaha]

mtrain....the costs of the parking meters and parking staff are matched with collections and tickets....so, if you never go downtown, you're not paying for it!

Parking meters are an antipode in the redevelopment of a vibrant downtown. Today when the far larger majority of business is conducted away from the urban core, keeping this antiquated deterrent to success around for the next generation is unfathomable. Parking enforcement doesn't break even and is a small self perpetuating leach on the backside of every citizen.

I am amazed at the number of our posters who shrug this off with comments such as, "I'd rather see the meters gone but this is a definite improvement," or "The parking meters needed to be updated." This is a defeatist attitude wholly lacking in spinal fortitude when the correct comment should be an unequivocal "NO!" to meters of any type.

So you really think these things are going to put revenue on the bottom line in the city? Think again. At a typical cost of around $6,100 per meter, or between $7,000 and $10,000 for double space meters, plus the cost of money, personnel and maintenance this becomes just one more exercise in the fiasco that we call downtown Jacksonville.

Witness the odd unity of mind that this waste has created here at MJ, when Stephendare, Timkin, Mtraininjax, ChrisUFgator and Ocklawaha are all singing the same song, it's time to call in the dog and put our the fire. HELL HAS FROZEN OVER! The correct response to city hall in this case is "NO!" "HELL NO!" It's time for a sweeping change in our downtown policy and using these things as artificial reef material is the only acceptable response from the public.

No one has suggested getting rid of Parking Enforcement, but the meters are a barrier to downtowns future success.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

I would have to side with M-train on this one . ( Don't have a coronary , M-train )  I think the money could have been more wisely spent on refurbishing old meters instead of the super duper new ones.

The money would have been better spent not being spent on meters at all.  The streetscape project would have been a great opportunity to do what Mobile did on Dauphin Street and Cleveland with Euclid Street.  A free parking zone in the heart of DT.

Free one hour parking in DT Cleveland


Free two hour parking in DT Mobile

[Timkin]

I would OF COURSE, prefer that the meters are taken out entirely, and forever.  I simply think since they are there, that the new ones that take change, Credit cards and Pay Pal , were a bit over the top...to be clear on my position.  I sided with  M-train , and we all know that rarely happens, in that refurbished ones over these new ones would have saved money.

[Bativac]

You guys are right, of course - the elimination of the parking meters would have been preferable. I guess I foolishly was thinking only of the convenience and peace-of-mind aspects of being able to pay for parking without having to carry change, instead of worrying about being ticketed. What I should have considered is that not having to pay for parking would have been the best option. I guess Jacksonville has brainwashed me.

[thelakelander]

With all of that said, if you're going to have meters, it does make sense to invest in user friendly ones.  The ones that only accept quarters are archaic and help cement the image of downtown being an outdated place of commerce and activity. 

Personally, I have no problem with the recently installed smart meter technology.  From a larger economic perspective, I believe there is a strong argument that we'd benefit more by simply pulling up all of them and having free time limit enforced parallel parking in areas that need turnover.  If they stay, then there's an argument for end user friendly technology and using the money generated to improve the environment of the specific neighborhoods where the funds are collected from.

[Ralph W]

Time limit enforced parking. An interesting concept. No meters would certainly make some feel better but would bring back the chalk on a stick forcing the meter maids to work for their paycheck.

However, if smart meters are the future then they should really BE smart. Smart enough to accept the one piece of plastic that must be carried by every driver - The drivers license. They should recognize the name, address and time of use for each parking incident and generate a monthly invoice to be paid just like your utility bill. If time limit parking is to be enforced, that information should also be included in the invoice. Swipe your DL when you park, swipe it again when you leave and if you overstay the limit a penalty is tacked on. Re swiping the card to extend parking would easily be caught by a truly smart meter - double the penalty.

Tacking on a personal gripe: All those city cars parking all day for free, tying up potential revenue generating spots or forcing drivers to search for parking near their destination. We, the taxpayer, are subsidizing some of the parking garages. Any city vehicle, not needed at a moments notice, should be required to use our prepaid garages. A moments notice does NOT include any vehicle not assigned to a first responder. Fire and Police brass are not first responders. Building inspectors are not first responders. JEA vehicles - not first responders. Property appraisers are not first responders. There are more.

Second gripe: I don't care what type of disability you have. If you have a drivers license and can own and drive a car and use a parking spot - You PAY.  Too many free passes are given to too many.

[nbenton]

I do not usually carry cash, definitely never, ever, ever have change on me (If i get change back, i leave it in the jar). I used to have to make a special trip to get coins if I was going downtown, so I don't see why its "bad" to have one that takes a credit card.

[urbanlibertarian]

If the meters go away how will enforcement of the time limits be paid for?

[thelakelander]

Citywide ticket revenue would be one option.

[Ralph W]

Question: Why is it necessary to have parking meters?
Answer #1: To pay the salary and benefits to the city employees who monitor the parking system.
Answer #2: To provide revenue to the city.

Question: If the revenue generated (including fines) only breaks even - if that, why is it necessary to have meters?
Answer: To ENFORCE turnover so more people can conduct business in any given area.

Question: Why is it necessary to enforce time limits?
Answer #1: Because without enforcement, workers in any given area will monopolize street spaces close to their employment, preventing more people from conducting business in any given area.
Answer #2: Because people conducting business or patronizing businesses in any given area will spend too much time doing so and inconvenience someone else.
Answer #3: Because revenue is needed to pay the salaries and benefits to city employees who monitor the parking system.

Question: What would be the consequences if, on Monday morning, all the parking meters disappeared and all the meter maids were fired?
Answer: Who knows... Let's try it.

[Charles Hunter]

I think if the meters and enforcement ("meter maids") are eliminated, Answer #1 (employees monopolizing spaces) will take place, unless there are time limits, that are enforced; but we can't do that, because the hypothesis eliminates the means of enforcement.

Note, this is opinion, I have no empirical data to confirm or refute my opinion ... but I am sure someone does ( ... Bueler?)

[thelakelander]

^There are several cities that have free time limited parking and it works out just well.  My advice for Jax would be to ask a place like Greenville, SC how they carry it out successfully.

[Ralph W]

On a larger scale, if the federal powers that be can think of implementing laws that put the onus on the employer to eliminate the employment of the undocumented, then a similar, much smaller effort of parking enforcement can be placed at the door of the Jacksonville businesses.

People working downtown, or where ever there are parking meters, must present a validated parking stub from a parking garage or surface lot showing entrance and exit times when ever they are actually present for the working day. Employers will correlate all times and report discrepancies to code compliance. Car pooling, public transportation use, being dropped off instead of driving, all to be documented and verified by the employer with some horrific penalties for fibbing. Let's treat this like the EPA will treat the offenders of the Lead Law - a $37,000 fine for the first offense ought to get some attention from those parking scofflaws. Or, if that's going overboard, how about a fine similar to one levied for have lights on that attract turtles?

[tufsu1]

^There are several cities that have free time limited parking and it works out just well.  My advice for Jax would be to ask a place like Greenville, SC how they carry it out successfully.

with enforcement that includes ticketing (i.e., revenue)

[JeffreyS]

How about we just ask the much busier and much more dense Riverside how they get by with only St. Vincents parking garage and no meters.   I can guess the answer , easily.