The secret is out: Jacksonvillians want rail!

[Coolyfett]

This would be a great way to attack it, but I'd FORCE it to fast-track since BJP money is in the bank...
Make them start turning dirt on Skyway improvements the week after the vote, then phase in the rail
and LRT/Streetcar within 24 months...

Ocklawaha

What sort of improvements Ock? How much could the BJP money do??

[thelakelander]

Unless something changes, the remaining BJP money can only be used for right-of-way purchase.  Unless that right-of-way purchase included buying or leasing "existing" track, other sources would have to found to fund the construction of the actual system and cover O&M expenses for the first couple of years.

[Ocklawaha]

Yes, I know all about the BJP money restrictions, but those who make the rules can change the rules...

NEAR EASTSIDE of DOWNTOWN:

If this is to become the hub of all future major venues, a large hotel, maybe a convention center, Hogans Creek Walk or Park, Negro League Hall of Fame or what ever else one could think of then it could use CHOICE to sell transportation. There is a new law that will prevent JTA from providing shuttles on game days or special venues IF a private operator wants to give it a go. So buses might be out of the picture. The same would NOT apply to Skyway or Streetcars.

Take the SKYWAY down Bay to Randolph to the garage at Randolph and Duval.

Take a new streetcar down Water-Independence to Newnan - Beaver to Randolph and Duval.
The Streetcar can then expand north via Main Street (local line)
It can expand to Gateway Mall as (Express Line) via the old F&J or Maxwell House branch.

Some distant day either or both could cross a new Matthews bridge or tunnel. Take you pick - Arlington, Beaches - JU - Town Center? Then what do you do with a Skyway? Well give it one or two, or better yet send it up the line along Talleyrand (the port is booming ya know...)

Regular commuter rail pretty much holds to the former ACL to Green Cove Springs
Current FEC to St. Augustine
Current City "S" and CSX north to Yulee

Amazing the lack of vision of these JTA planners.

Ocklawaha

[Ocklawaha]

Sorry for the distraction from the above, but the other "MUSTS" for the Skyway to move ahead are:

Get it up and OVER I-95 past the hotel, and OVER the FEC in San Marco to terminate at Atlantic and the FEC where a multi-modal station could be built. As the I-95 Southbank interchanges get ready to undergo yet another-another-another complete rebuilding, ADD A RAMP TO AND FROM ATLANTIC and build the damned parking garage somewhere next to the multi-modal station. This way commuters from Beach-Atlantic-I-95 could just exit and park-n-ride. As it is now, you drive almost downtown, then backtrack to a garage, then walk a block to a skyway, that takes you back where you just turned!

A San Marco Streetcar needs to focus on the "Square" and on the historic Hendrix - San Jose - San Marco areas.

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Riverside: Again, a split, streetcars down Park to focus on the historic core and tie St. Vincents, Park and King, MAYBE ANNIE LYTLE, and Union Station to downtown.

Skyway, down Riverside (which never was a Trolley route past Forrest) all the way to I-95/Blue Cross/ and MAYBE ANNIE LYTLE.

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Talking with one of my contractor friends, he suggested a solution to the JTA "We can't go near Amtrak at Union Station" argument. Not only do they do railroad bridges, and he priced one for me at under 1 Million on the Northside... He took a look at the TUNNELS and said, you know we could re-open these and bore on under the concourse and BAY STREET to come up at the Skyway.

Now Imagine that Skyway station rebuilt to match the older 1880 style depot ruins across the street. A long inclined Moving Sidewalk (not esclator) rise from below ground to the Skyway while another rises from Street Level. Amazing. A short walk and right under the station to wisk yourself up and out. Even a councourse into the Depot itself and another for Streetcars and Buses.

Remember the new law might make BRT an even WORSE expense.,

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Yes, I know all about the BJP money restrictions, but those who make the rules can change the rules...

NEAR EASTSIDE of DOWNTOWN:

If this is to become the hub of all future major venues, a large hotel, maybe a convention center, Hogans Creek Walk or Park, Negro League Hall of Fame or what ever else one could think of then it could use CHOICE to sell transportation. There is a new law that will prevent JTA from providing shuttles on game days or special venues IF a private operator wants to give it a go. So buses might be out of the picture. The same would NOT apply to Skyway or Streetcars.

Take the SKYWAY down Bay to Randolph to the garage at Randolph and Duval.

Take a new streetcar down Water-Independence to Newnan - Beaver to Randolph and Duval.
The Streetcar can then expand north via Main Street (local line)
It can expand to Gateway Mall as (Express Line) via the old F&J or Maxwell House branch.

Some distant day either or both could cross a new Matthews bridge or tunnel. Take you pick - Arlington, Beaches - JU - Town Center? Then what do you do with a Skyway? Well give it one or two, or better yet send it up the line along Talleyrand (the port is booming ya know...)

Regular commuter rail pretty much holds to the former ACL to Green Cove Springs
Current FEC to St. Augustine
Current City "S" and CSX north to Yulee

Amazing the lack of vision of these JTA planners.

Ocklawaha

How many miles of rail are you talking about and what would be the general cost/square mile to implement such a plan?  Do you think it would be possible to achieve without having to raise taxes?

[Ocklawaha]

Between 8 and 14 miles, depending on which "extras" we added to the core loop. The core COULD BE built as one way for starters then go to double track as the streetscape changes downtown. In fact, with change of parking, we could also go with single track with passing sidings and safety island (stations) throughout with the creation of a center median on the loop or extensions. In other words lots of ways to economize.

I would suggest the whole thing come from BJP funds to FAST TRACK the system. Then go after FTA-JTA-GRANTS for future extras. As for operations check out the possible use of a special transit tax or development tax district in the areas where land owners will experience 100's of % increase in values. That would take care of O&M in case the FTA or CITY wasn't otherwise available.

CHECK OUT: http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/
"Jacksonville Answers Kansas City"

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Great blog site you have there.

[fsujax]

I like the site.

[Coolyfett]

Sorry for the distraction from the above, but the other "MUSTS" for the Skyway to move ahead are:

Get it up and OVER I-95 past the hotel, and OVER the FEC in San Marco to terminate at Atlantic and the FEC where a multi-modal station could be built. As the I-95 Southbank interchanges get ready to undergo yet another-another-another complete rebuilding, ADD A RAMP TO AND FROM ATLANTIC and build the damned parking garage somewhere next to the multi-modal station. This way commuters from Beach-Atlantic-I-95 could just exit and park-n-ride. 

Ocklawaha

What Hotel?? And isn't the Jax Transportation Center a Multi-Modul station?? Would Jax build 2 of those building/systems? Excuse me Ock i'm a lil confused. Is there a difference between a Multi-Modul station and a Transportation center?