Historic Ford Plant to be Demolished?

[fieldafm]

I missed the first tour, gonna have to miss this one as well as I'll be out of town.  Doug, take lots of pics for me!

[Tacachale]

I had no idea this was in discussion to make it a cruise terminal. How far along is that process? Have they given up completely on Mayport?

No, and JAXPORT still has the land there. The Ford plant site was in discussion several years ago, but it was ruled out because the taller cruise ships can't make it under the Dames Point Bridge. If terminal goes anywhere, it will most assuredly be at Mayport, despite the wishes of the community organization there.

[johnny_simpatico]

The news recently has featured articles about new freight terminals in Talleyrand (Keystone is an example.) Water borne cargo these days typically involves bulk materials and containers.  If a freight terminal operator were to buy the property, the old building would be a hindrance.

The cruise port is still a possibility.  Jacksonville will never be the kind of big league market that will attract the new megaships one might see in places like Miami.  In my opinion, the best use for the building would be as a CASINO:  1.  No NIMBY problem.  It is in nobody's backyard.  2.  Gorgeous location with great highway access. 3.  No real competition.  4.  Would create lots of jobs.  5.  Would stimulate development of hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc. between the building and downtown.

[SarahTay]

I will be attending, so we will cover both tour events on the site and try to answer some of these questions

[fieldafm]

Jacksonville will never be the kind of big league market that will attract the new megaships one might see in places like Miami. 

I don't agree.
Jacksonville was at the forefront of the invention of the container revolution.  However, ports are a capital-intensive industry and someone made the decision a long time ago to focus on ro/ro and bulk cargo and the port infrastructure fell by the wayside.  Houston heavily invested in themselves and what you get is what you see today.

Jax won't be Norfolk, but I think it could certainly beat out Savannah(I REALLY believe that)... and it has WAYYYY more logistical and navigational advantages(once Mile Point gets fixed) than Miami.  The fact that there are Pacific shipping companies here is NO small coincidence.

In my opinion, the best use for the building would be as a CASINO:

I wish downtown had a river full of gambling boats like St Louis, but that's really just a pipe dream. B/c city council didnt have the balls to confront the illegal 'sweepstakes' companies... we only have one way for paramutual facilities in Duval County now and they just opened up shop in Regency.  Unless state law changes(and frankly that would not be fair to the reservations), a casino just isn't in the cards.

If a freight terminal operator were to buy the property, the old building would be a hindrance.

Depending on what kind of cargo... but the buidling could easily become short-term wharehousing facilities(cold or dry) for a specific-type of terminal.  There is a big market and opportunity here for an on-dock cold storage terminal for instance.

[johnny_simpatico]

@fieldafm...My megaship comment pertained to cruise ships. A huge casino complex is being built in the Omni area north of downtown Miami.  I don't know the details of any tribal involvement, but I understand it is backed by big money from Malaysia.     http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/14/2407173/genting-unveils-plan-for-miami.html   

[Tacachale]

@fieldafm...My megaship comment pertained to cruise ships. A huge casino complex is being built in the Omni area north of downtown Miami.  I don't know the details of any tribal involvement, but I understand it is backed by big money from Malaysia.     http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/09/14/2407173/genting-unveils-plan-for-miami.html   

If that thing gets approved by the state it's going to bleed the tribes bad. I would expect some serious contention will be forthcoming. I also like the quote from the rich Malaysian dude that Miami isn't a "real city" until it gets huge resorts, compared to the stunning metropolis that is Orlando.

[Ocklawaha]

ALL PHOTOS JAXPORT.

I agree with Fieldafm, our logistical postion on the east coast puts us in the catbird seat for dominating the deep southern ports. Our new cargo terminals are the only ones on the coast sitting on real estate leases with PRIVATE INVESTMENT DOLLARS creating and owning the facilities. Being a 'landlord port' puts us on par with Long Beach, Seattle, Los Angeles, etc. A right coast port doing it just like the left coast. In time we could see Jacksonville pass Savannah, Charleston, and even threaten Norfolks position.  For the past two years, the Port of Jacksonville has handled more loaded TEUs, or 20-foot-equivalent container units, than any other state port. The Port of Jacksonville handled about 705,000 TEUs in 2010, which is about 22,000 more than Miami handled, according to Journal of Commerce.  Jacksonville already has an operating Asian Terminal with another right around the corner, nobody else is close to such a deal. Finally the fix for Jaxport's longer channel and rail infrastructure is only 20 Million more then the 780 Million dollar fix for channel and rail in Miami. Unlike Miami, for that amount, Florida gets a port with nearly unlimited expansion possibilities.

"Jacksonville is not the kind of market that will ever attract the mega-ships." Oh contraire...  It isn't about the local market as much as it is about the economy of running a 1,400 passenger ship as opposed to running a 6,000 passenger ship.  Both types of ships have similar port fees, and fuel, crew costs are not that much more for the mega-ship. The market reach for Jacksonville is found at the International Airport and Amtrak Station which = UNLIMITED. The couple in Des Moines, Dubuque or Danville, wishing to cruise to Curacao, Cartagena or Cozumel, is concerned more about how close the airport is to the ship as they are if it sails from Tampa or Tampico.

I think in the transportation industry today we are well into the Autumn of the mid-size cruise ships, the future will IMO be marked by a trend towards mega-ships and small ship cruises.  The small ships already call on DOWNTOWN Jacksonville all year long, its the lack of ability to handle the mega-ships that scuttles our chances of remaining in the game. In short, JAXPORT absolutely needs to get on with the Mayport or the newer Nichols Creek sites.

Lastly, and in the meanwhile, Mayor Brown could send a strong message to the industry and give downtown a boost by creating a "Visit Jacksonville" welcome station on the waterfront between the Acosta Bridge and the Hyatt. Let's get creative and make that little office double as a small cruise ship terminal.  Thermal glass over looking the river, the ability to board passengers directly off the ships or Riverwalk, visitors videos, brochures, JSO, TSA (on call), Ambassadors, WIFI, free OJ and Coffee, in short a MULTI USE, Joint cruise terminal/welcome station.

OCKLAWAHA

[Noone]

+1
Add to that if we can have  pocket parks. We can have pocket piers. Still seeking a city council member as a sponsor for such a project.
Once identified it would then be a great project to work with FIND.
If there is any other county that is reading this and your in Clay, St. Johns, Nassau, Putnam, Flagler, or any other county that is a member of FIND send me a pm. We'll Make It Happen. Its not happening in Duval county.

Use the River. And the Ford Plant is on the River. 

[fieldafm]

The market reach for Jacksonville is found at the International Airport and Amtrak Station which = UNLIMITED.

Agreed.  Most of the cruise passengers leaving Jacksonville are from around a 12 hour radius, but they also get quite a bit of international tourists that board here.

The small ships already call on DOWNTOWN Jacksonville all year long, its the lack of ability to handle the mega-ships that shoots us in the scuttles our chances of remaining in the game. In short, JAXPORT absolutely needs to get on with the Mayport or the newer Nichols Creek sites.

I agree.  Three small cruise lines already call on Jacksonville and moore in front of the Hyatt on the city's bulkhead as Ock's picture depicts.  The reality of the situation is that the large luxury cruise liners have an obstacle in the Dames Point Bridge.  They need to be berthed at a cruise terminal on the East side of the bridge.  Both the small and large ships both do well calling on Jacksonville, but both need dedicated facilities to grow.

creating a "Visit Jacksonville" welcome station on the waterfront between the Acosta Bridge and the Hyatt.

That's really an interesting thought Ock.  Really interesting.  The city would still need to have adequate berthing space for the private and charter vessels that call on downtown from time to time... but that's really a great idea.  Currently several entities serve the small cruise lines (Hyatt, Jacksonville Historical Walking Tours, catering companies, etc).  Why not house them in one area and expand the reach of these services while also creating economic opportunity for small business owners? 

This type of development needs to be rolled into the convention center conversation in a major way.

[thelakelander]

Seems like all those old Shipyards piers would be the perfect place for berthing a variety of vessels.

[JaxNative68]

Leave it to Jacksonville to demolish a once great building by Albert Kahn.

[Timkin]

Leave it to Jacksonville to demolish a once great building by Albert Kahn.

+1    I have said it before, and until it really changes , I will maintain my position. If it is Historic and in Jacksonville, it is probably endangered and going to be demolished.  It is just what happens in Jacksonville.

[thelakelander]

Memphis had an identical Ford plant that was demolished a year or two ago.  Anyone know how many buildings Kahn designed in Florida? It can't be that many.

[2L]

As far as demolition, the building is locally designated as an individual landmark.  It is protected against demolition in accordance with Chapter 307 of the City of Jacksonville Code of Ordinances.

Mr. Shieldhouse was wise to bring this news to our attention. 

If you have never seen the building, its worth attending the tour because you will likely not have many other opportunities--access is limited.  Also, the earlier portion of the DoCoMoMo Tour focuses on five homes in Arlington and the Unitarian Universalist Church, designed by Robert Broward.  For more information and to purchase tickets online, go to AIA Jacksonville website.