Mass Transit 30 Years Later: Special Report

[fsujax]

we should and I have been!

[Ocklawaha]

Now if someone could just find the marketing survey study that was done, we'd be back to square one. I can't remember the name of the company that did it, but it seems to me they were huge in the billboard advertising business. As our little group couldn't afford a large formal study to prove we had a viable plan, they jumped on board and did a small study that came up with a figure of 500,000 visitors a year. That is a half a million people pulling off I-95/10 for the purpose of seeing and riding on a historic streetcar in Jacksonville. I remember someone coming up with the idea that that would equal about 6 Super Bowl games in attendance.

[Dashing Dan]

The original people mover study for downtown Jacksonville was completed early in 1973.   There was some skepticism about that study, but I can't say whether or not the skepticism was widespread at that time.

I do recall that when a plan for a more extensive fixed guideway system was presented to Mayor Tanzler sometime in 1974, he used emphatic language to say that he was not in favor of it.

In 1976, about a year after I left Jacksonville, I heard that Pres. Gerald Ford wanted to bring a downtown people mover to his home state (Detroit MI) and that Jacksonville and another city (Miami?) had also been chosen for cover.  I wasn't living in Jacksonville then, but I thought that a people mover might be useful as a way to connect hotels on the Southbank to a new convention center at the old Jacksonville Terminal (the Prime Osborn). 

It's too bad that in order to get from the Southbank to the Prime Osborn, you have to change skyway trains at the Central Station, and that you also have to backtrack a little.

All in all I like the skyway and I still believe that it could be successful.   An extension of the skyway to Atlantic Blvd would make a lot of sense to me.

[fieldafm]

All in all I like the skyway and I still believe that it could be successful.   An extension of the skyway to Atlantic Blvd would make a lot of sense to me.

DD
I'm glad to hear you say that.  I believe we went back and forth previously where you were against an at-grade extension of the Skyway... what changed your mind?

[dougskiles]

Whatever happened to stjr?  It is about time for him to opine on the skyway.

I completely agree, extend it to Atlantic, one TOD project at a time.

1) South end of Kings Ave Garage and fill in the pond with retail, office and apartments
2) East end of Lasalle Street (at San Marco Library and tennis courts) with new apartments along Lasalle (think brownstones...)
3) Atlantic Blvd to reach the East San Marco project of residential and a Publix.

Great opportunities for public private partnerships.

[TheProfessor]

It's still not too late.  We can follow in Portland and San Diego's steps with lightrail that connect downtown to the beaches and JIA to the Southside.

[Dashing Dan]

All in all I like the skyway and I still believe that it could be successful.   An extension of the skyway to Atlantic Blvd would make a lot of sense to me.

DD
I'm glad to hear you say that.  I believe we went back and forth previously where you were against an at-grade extension of the Skyway... what changed your mind?

Maybe I wasn't clear.  I have long been in favor of extending the skyway to Atlantic Blvd. 

I just don't believe that you can get it all the way down to grade level, or at least not down low enough that you could walk or drive across the "track."  I also don't believe there would be a significant cost saving from bringing it down.  It's called the "skyway" for a reason.  It's designed to be up in the air.

I also think it would be a smart move to re-brand the skyway.  I like "The Pelican!"   

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I also think it would be a smart move to re-brand the skyway.  I like "The Pelican!"

How about "The Albatross"   

[Dashing Dan]

Ouch

[Ocklawaha]

All in all I like the skyway and I still believe that it could be successful.   An extension of the skyway to Atlantic Blvd would make a lot of sense to me.

DD
I'm glad to hear you say that.  I believe we went back and forth previously where you were against an at-grade extension of the Skyway... what changed your mind?

Maybe I wasn't clear.  I have long been in favor of extending the skyway to Atlantic Blvd. 

I just don't believe that you can get it all the way down to grade level, or at least not down low enough that you could walk or drive across the "track."  I also don't believe there would be a significant cost saving from bringing it down.  It's called the "skyway" for a reason.  It's designed to be up in the air.

I also think it would be a smart move to re-brand the skyway.  I like "The Pelican!"

Your making this too hard Dan. It's simple really, not having to build 20' high bents to support the Skyway beams saves a bunch of cash.

The Skyway would remain in the air over the FEC RY, turn south along the west side of the railroad and drop down into a fenced in depression in the soil. In that way nobody gets anywhere near the beams, the bus and rail platforms can be at the same level, and of course nobody drives over it (there are no railroad crossings in these blocks).  Disney does this in Tokyo and it works perfectly well. They cut their costs and simply fenced and planted shrubs around the sides. There have been several other ground level monorails, but to be clear, NOBODY crosses one and there is NO railroad crossing. Remember what we are talking about is ground level at the Atlantic Avenue Station area only.

[Dashing Dan]

I'm not yet sold on the idea that you'd save much money by bringing the skyway down to grade. 

But as long as we both agree that you would have to go above or below the skyway in order to cross it,  then this disagreement is mainly over semantics. 

Ock - what about a new name for the skyway?  What would you suggest?  Is there a famous train that you'd like to honor, like the Orange Blossom Special?  How about The Downtown Champion?

[dougskiles]

I like the Pelican - especially if we can rig it to drop little 'packages' on the cars below.

[deathstar]

I wonder, does there exist, a city-wide blueprint, including outer neighborhoods and beyond, to show exactly how LRT would work for the city? I've been on here for quite a few years, and I've seen maps and the such. I'm under the impression that something like this Has to already exist, and that I'm probably being a little lazy. If something of this magnitude would be given to city leaders in hand, instead of ideas by word of mouth, could it have an impact?

[tufsu1]

there are no plans for LRT....just streetcard zserving the urban core neighborhoods and regional commuter rail....other than that, its BRT for Jax.

[deathstar]

I suppose I didn't mean any city plans, I meant, somebody apart of the Metro Jacksonville crew, staff or forum members with the know how, who could present the city with something? Something to hand them, to say, "THIS is how it could work", something physical instead of vocal.