Urban Construction Update - August 2011

[thelakelander]

Other than the bad retail space layouts, dead walls and old building fossils plastered on the side of them on Monroe, Main and Duval, nothing.

[JeffreyS]

I meant to snap a pic of the Midnight Cafe under construction on Adams today for the update.

[A-Finnius]

I don't understand why a few of the posters are against 7-11 going into the old church on Stockton.  I could understand if it was being bulldozed for a parking lot but doesn't it make sense to let a company bring in a business and continue to revitalize one of the more blighted areas of Riverside?

Also, are we sure the building would be demolished?  What if the building was renovated?  It would make an incredibly unique 7-11.

[Steve]

I don't understand why a few of the posters are against 7-11 going into the old church on Stockton.  I could understand if it was being bulldozed for a parking lot but doesn't it make sense to let a company bring in a business and continue to revitalize one of the more blighted areas of Riverside?

Also, are we sure the building would be demolished?  What if the building was renovated?  It would make an incredibly unique 7-11.

The current plan that was presented to RAP was to demolish the building and build a 7-Eleven with a Gas Station.

I believe that folks in the community would reconsider their feelings if they renovated the church into a 7-Eleven. With that said, there is a concern in the community that three of the four corners of the intersection would be convenience stores.

[floridaforester]

I don't understand why a few of the posters are against 7-11 going into the old church on Stockton.  I could understand if it was being bulldozed for a parking lot but doesn't it make sense to let a company bring in a business and continue to revitalize one of the more blighted areas of Riverside?

Also, are we sure the building would be demolished?  What if the building was renovated?  It would make an incredibly unique 7-11.

Really?  You're shocked that residents of a historic neighborhood that have seen too many contributing structures demolished all over town would be up in arms against another historic structure being torn down for any reason.  I agree that if they re-use the structure for the store it would be fantastic.  But I'm not holding my breath for that.  What do you think the odds are for that happening?  So I think you can understand why many folks would immediately get their hackles up about this...because they've seen it happen too many times already.

[A-Finnius]

I don't understand why a few of the posters are against 7-11 going into the old church on Stockton.  I could understand if it was being bulldozed for a parking lot but doesn't it make sense to let a company bring in a business and continue to revitalize one of the more blighted areas of Riverside?

Also, are we sure the building would be demolished?  What if the building was renovated?  It would make an incredibly unique 7-11.

The current plan that was presented to RAP was to demolish the building and build a 7-Eleven with a Gas Station.

I believe that folks in the community would reconsider their feelings if they renovated the church into a 7-Eleven. With that said, there is a concern in the community that three of the four corners of the intersection would be convenience stores.

I did not realize there was a current plan presented to RAP to destroy the building.  Do you know if this plan had any room for negotiations on that demolition?

Yes, having three convenience stores (and a fourth just south on Stockton) is a concern.  Have there been any other plans presented to RAP regarding this structure? 

[A-Finnius]

I don't understand why a few of the posters are against 7-11 going into the old church on Stockton.  I could understand if it was being bulldozed for a parking lot but doesn't it make sense to let a company bring in a business and continue to revitalize one of the more blighted areas of Riverside?

Also, are we sure the building would be demolished?  What if the building was renovated?  It would make an incredibly unique 7-11.

Really?  You're shocked that residents of a historic neighborhood that have seen too many contributing structures demolished all over town would be up in arms against another historic structure being torn down for any reason.  I agree that if they re-use the structure for the store it would be fantastic.  But I'm not holding my breath for that.  What do you think the odds are for that happening?  So I think you can understand why many folks would immediately get their hackles up about this...because they've seen it happen too many times already.

No, I never said I was shocked.  I said I didn't understand.  I'm sure this is my ignorance asking, as I have not lived in Jacksonville my entire life, but could you please provide some examples of historic structures that were demolished to make way for new businesses (not for parking structures) and then had a negative effect on the surrounding area?

I also think there is a bit of a double standard here in Riverside.  If this was Kickbacks wanting to put in a second gastropub, I'm not sure it would have been met with such stern resistance as quickly as it was.

[avonjax]

I don't understand why a few of the posters are against 7-11 going into the old church on Stockton.  I could understand if it was being bulldozed for a parking lot but doesn't it make sense to let a company bring in a business and continue to revitalize one of the more blighted areas of Riverside?

Also, are we sure the building would be demolished?  What if the building was renovated?  It would make an incredibly unique 7-11.

Really?  You're shocked that residents of a historic neighborhood that have seen too many contributing structures demolished all over town would be up in arms against another historic structure being torn down for any reason.  I agree that if they re-use the structure for the store it would be fantastic.  But I'm not holding my breath for that.  What do you think the odds are for that happening?  So I think you can understand why many folks would immediately get their hackles up about this...because they've seen it happen too many times already.

No, I never said I was shocked.  I said I didn't understand.  I'm sure this is my ignorance asking, as I have not lived in Jacksonville my entire life, but could you please provide some examples of historic structures that were demolished to make way for new businesses (not for parking structures) and then had a negative effect on the surrounding area?

I also think there is a bit of a double standard here in Riverside.  If this was Kickbacks wanting to put in a second gastropub, I'm not sure it would have been met with such stern resistance as quickly as it was.

There are so many lost historic structures in Jacksonville, it would take all day to list them.

[floridaforester]

I don't understand why a few of the posters are against 7-11 going into the old church on Stockton.  I could understand if it was being bulldozed for a parking lot but doesn't it make sense to let a company bring in a business and continue to revitalize one of the more blighted areas of Riverside?

Also, are we sure the building would be demolished?  What if the building was renovated?  It would make an incredibly unique 7-11.

Really?  You're shocked that residents of a historic neighborhood that have seen too many contributing structures demolished all over town would be up in arms against another historic structure being torn down for any reason.  I agree that if they re-use the structure for the store it would be fantastic.  But I'm not holding my breath for that.  What do you think the odds are for that happening?  So I think you can understand why many folks would immediately get their hackles up about this...because they've seen it happen too many times already.

No, I never said I was shocked.  I said I didn't understand.  I'm sure this is my ignorance asking, as I have not lived in Jacksonville my entire life, but could you please provide some examples of historic structures that were demolished to make way for new businesses (not for parking structures) and then had a negative effect on the surrounding area?

I also think there is a bit of a double standard here in Riverside.  If this was Kickbacks wanting to put in a second gastropub, I'm not sure it would have been met with such stern resistance as quickly as it was.

In response to your "double standard" example, my guess is that someone with a vested interest in the neighborhood, such as Kickbacks, might initially try to find a way to renovate the existing structure as part of the re-use and not initially suggest demolition until forced to adapt the plan, like it appears that the 7-11 is proposing.

An example that you're asking for regarding demolition that led to a negative effect could be found numerous times.  I've seen demolition for proposed ventures that never happened (or at least not even years after the demolition occurred).  The first example that comes to mind are the blocks of 30's & 40's era bungalows & commercial structures that were razed for the San Marco mixed-used development that may or may not ever happen at the corner of Hendricks and Atlantic.  I think it could be argued that this was not exactly a positive for the area.  Several square blocks of vacant and overgrown lots is probably not what the neighbors were expecting when these grandiose plans were announced.

I'm sure other posters could come up with some more examples for you (Brooklyn, La Villa... anybody?).

[fieldafm]

I also think there is a bit of a double standard here in Riverside.  If this was Kickbacks wanting to put in a second gastropub, I'm not sure it would have been met with such stern resistance as quickly as it was.

In a historic district, you have designations of buildings as either being a 'contributing structure' or 'non-contributing structure'.  Basically a contributing structure defines how a neighborhood is considered historic.  The building is an example of some type of architectural uniqueness or offers some type of historic contextual value to the surrounding neighborhood.  The neighborhood can, should and will fight to the bitter end to preserve such a structure.  Without it, the community as a whole loses its identity and historical uniqueness.  That has happened far too often in this great city.

This particular building formerly housed the Woodlawn Baptist Church... a mainstay in the neighborhood for quite some time.  I was not raised Baptist, but vividly remember my grandfather and grandmother taking me up those steps to listen to a revival-style concert by the congregation's choir as a little boy.  I believe my grandmother worked with one of the members of the church at the Visiting Nurses Association. 

In the Kickbacks case, the building that is looking to be replaced is a non-contributing structure.  In order for this conversion to take place... the new structure must meet the design standards set forth in the historic district's overlay.

I am firmly on the record as being in FULL support of 7-11's efforts at constructing a context-sensitive urban walk up location in Avondale.  I am also firmly on the record as being bitterly opposed to any effort to tear down the old Woodlawn building to construct a suburban-style gas station. 

I could care less about how many gas stations are at the interesection itself.

[TheProfessor]

Any word on the road in front of the courthouse??

[thelakelander]

^Monroe Street update:

Redman, Boyer seek Monroe ‘timeout’

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,11202.msg240580.html#msg240580

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2011-08-22

[twojacks]

BTW, never saw anything on here about the median landscaping installed beginning about 40th St. on North Main.  Palm trees no less.  Wish this had been used in the landscaping along Main in Springfield.

[Overstreet]

.........but you've really got to admit the temporary plywood doors add a certain amount of local flavor to the main entrance.

[thelakelander]

BTW, never saw anything on here about the median landscaping installed beginning about 40th St. on North Main.  Palm trees no less.  Wish this had been used in the landscaping along Main in Springfield.

You just hit my pet peeve with local roadway landscaping, lol.  FDOT's upgrades to North Main were horrible, imo.  It was bad enough that they put those huge medians in the street and substituted parallel parking for bicycle lanes (could have had both if the medians were not included).  However, the basic purpose of street trees is to shield the pedestrian from the elements.  Instead, we spend landscaping money to make streets look better for someone in an air-conditioned car (the landscaping is in the median) driving through what used to be a walkable corridor at 45 mph and wonder why no one walks on the sidewalks (no trees, just concrete).  If there is one thing that Alvin Brown can do from a transportation standpoint to make this city better, it would be to change policy to enforce the concepts of complete and context sensitive streets.  We're already spending the landscaping money, it's just not being utilized properly.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-mar-complete-streets-policy-to-impact-jacksonville

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-feb-everyone-wins-with-complete-streets