Why Monroe Street Should Not be Rebuilt

[Miss Fixit]

Do we know the identity of the three council  members, in addition to Bishop, voting for this?

I think an email campaign to encourage everyone else on the council to vote to keep Monroe closed is in order!

[tufsu1]

having talked with Councilman Bishop about this issue, I believe it needs to wait for the new administration....Bishop, and others, see it as a power grab by Peyton as well as Chief Judge Moran

[Kay]

having talked with Councilman Bishop about this issue, I believe it needs to wait for the new administration....Bishop, and others, see it as a power grab by Peyton as well as Chief Judge Moran

Why do they see it as a power grab?  I don't understand that mentality.  Ron Barton says the cost is the same whether closed or open.

[PeeJayEss]

So, was this vote on whether to rebuild Monroe St? Or was it a vote on whether to consider the proposal to rebuild Monroe St? Basically, were they voting to later have a vote on this? If so, maybe they just want it to look like they are thoughtfully considering this, and they'll just vote it down when the time comes.

[jcjohnpaint]

it sounds like political bs bickering to me.  Do something for the people for once and maybe we will start moving somewhere. 

[Fallen Buckeye]

Barton said a plaza could be designed and engineered in two to three months if the council approve that, and either project would have the same cost and fit in existing budgets.

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-06-21/story/monroe-street-closure-heads-jacksonville-city-council-after-defeat#ixzz1Pv3m1nFW

My question is how can it cost the same to not build a road as to engineer a a completely new stretch of road? That's why this bill isn't drumming up any support. If you're building such a fancy plaza that it costs the same to build as a road, then you're taking away one of your best arguments for not rebuilding the road in many eyes: cost savings on this boondoggle. You can always improve the plaza later if you plan it out right.

[Miss Fixit]

A simple lawn / plaza should be much less expensive to construct than a downtown road in this location.

[thelakelander]

You all are right.  I find it pretty difficult to believe that a plaza costs the same thing as building a two block arterial road.  The basic components of a public square should be trees, sod and sidewalks.  Even if you build a road, those same basic components, along with the addition of asphalt, traffic signals, curbing, etc. will still be included.  The only conclusion I can come up with is that the public space they've proposed must be over-engineered with amenities (expensive palms, super wide sidewalks with pavers, etc.) that we can probably do without.

Expensive amenities can always be added at a later date with private funds, such as what Lakeland has done with the development of Lake Mirror Park: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-apr-lakelands-green-treasure-lake-mirror-park

[fsujax]

someone should be able to request a copy of the Plaza plan. This makes no sense to me. Bishop was the Friendship Fountain opening Sat morning, you would think they he would be in support of creating a nice public space in front of the Courthouse. What a disaster.

[jcjohnpaint]

Great idea to create a public space on the cheap and fix it up later. 

[thelakelander]

You all are right.  I find it pretty difficult to believe that a plaza costs the same thing as building a two block arterial road.  The basic components of a public square should be trees, sod and sidewalks.  Even if you build a road, those same basic components, along with the addition of asphalt, traffic signals, curbing, etc. will still be included.  The only conclusion I can come up with is that the public space they've proposed must be over-engineered with amenities (expensive palms, super wide sidewalks with pavers, etc.) that we can probably do without.

Expensive amenities can always be added at a later date with private funds, such as what Lakeland has done with the development of Lake Mirror Park: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-apr-lakelands-green-treasure-lake-mirror-park

What I described in the post has a good chance of happening.  On Friday, I attended a meeting chaired by Councilman Don Redman about revisiting the idea of keeping Monroe Street closed.  Everybody in the room, including Redman, Councilman Robin Lumb, Councilwoman Lori Boyer, Chris Flagg, Ron Barton, Judge Moran, etc. made great points for keeping the road closed.  They included:

- While already budgeted, the road would cost taxpayers +$800,000.

- If built, the road would generate traffic gridlock.

- When the council approved to keep the road open, the building being designed was a highrise.  The building constructed today, is a completely different footprint that makes the reconstruction of Monroe Street a waste.

- The drop off lane for the courthouse will be at Adams and Clay, regardless of whether Monroe Street is rebuilt.

However, an idea by Chris Flagg and Councilwoman Lori Boyer was the best thing to come out of the meeting.  When the JEDC tried to develop a public square, they attempted to have the potential road's ROW abandoned and failed.  Councilwoman Boyer suggests an option of simply not doing anything.....an expensive public space or road.  Such a move would save the city $800k and give the new administration and whatever replaces JEDC time to work the space into an overall plan for downtown.  With the help of Landscape Architect Chris Flagg, Councilwoman Boyer suggested taking the courthouse's $250,000 landscaping budget and using it to construct a "no-frill"s greenspace instead of placing a ton of expensive trees to buffer the courthouse from a new Monroe Street.  Chris Flagg mentioned he'd do the landscape plan revisions for free and that a decent public space could be created with $250k. 

Since the road money is BJP funds, it could be reallocated to other areas of need within the city's bloated budget.  A win, win if you ask me.  No road and keep some other needed service from getting cut in the process.  Max Marbut from the Daily Record should have a story on this in the next couple of days.  It will be interesting to see if it includes some comments from those who have previously been in favor of building a road.  Not only is it a danger for all, it's also nearly $600k more expensive than a simple "no-frills" greenspace. 

In closing, I suggested they attempt to pull off Councilwoman Boyer's innovative idea and follow what Lakeland did with Lake Mirror Park. 

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-apr-lakelands-green-treasure-lake-mirror-park

If the city can get a basic park space in there (imagine "movies in the park" with the Ed Ball Building serving as a giant screen or pick up soccer games), private funds could be leveraged for amenities like fountains and playscapes if the council remains against utilizing the $629,000 set aside for public art.



A festival or mobile food truck crawl at Courthouse Square?  It could happen.....

[JeffreyS]

I can not make it today but I hope some from here will be.  I would like to see Monroe remain a public square and the Mobility plan moving ahead at breakneck speed.

[thelakelander]

There's nothing going on today.  The meeting was last Friday.

[thelakelander]

Redman, Boyer seek Monroe ‘timeout’

City Council members Don Redman and Lori Boyer called Friday for a “timeout” on the heavily debated reopening of Monroe Street in front of the new Duval County Courthouse.

During a meeting they called Friday, Redman said he and Boyer will immediately pursue submitting new legislation that can be considered before a contract is awarded.

“We need to try and stop that,” he said.

Chief Circuit Judge Donald Moran went on the record at the meeting that he opposed the reopening of Monroe Street in front of the new courthouse under construction.

“All the professionals who have looked at this recommended that it be closed.” said Moran. “I’ve ridden down Adams Street and I don’t see how anybody could support putting a road there.”

Boyer and Redman called the meeting to discuss a policy change regarding the reopening of Monroe Street in front of the courthouse. The building is scheduled to open next summer.

Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2011-08-22

[duvaldude08]

I hope they dont rebuild this thing. Its seem that the majority is against it. Hopefully the new council uses their brain on this one.