Mark Woods: NBA at arena is too long of a jump shot

[Captain Zissou]

I like all of it. All that can't be funded by a 1 cent sales tax though.

Actually, it can.  The most expensive thing to the taxpayer on that list is the transit center and this site has proved time and time again that it can be built for well under $100M.

Hogan's: $5M
Streetcar: $20M at most
Transit Center: $80M
Riverwalk: $5M
Courthouse Site: $30M for the public portion and the rest funded by a deal with the Hyatt
Shipyards: $20M
Commodore:$$$???


That's $160M total, or less than a half of the Courthouse.

[duvaldude08]

The mayor is focusing on the most pressing issues in the city right now and we should do the same. Were the ones ranting on for days about this. He's mentioned the NBS in like two speeches and havent said anything about it since. It  seems to be a bigger issue with us than it is him.

[Tacachale]

^That's the thing, it's not just two speeches, he's brought it up repeatedly, including fitting it into his inaugural address. That was the whole impetus for Woods' column.

[duvaldude08]

^^Who cares!! He can say what he wants, its a free country. Geez. This whole thread is pointless and is beating a dead horse. If had the capibility of locking this thread I would. 

[exnewsman]

I like all of it. All that can't be funded by a 1 cent sales tax though.

Actually, it can.  The most expensive thing to the taxpayer on that list is the transit center and this site has proved time and time again that it can be built for well under $100M.

Hogan's: $5M
Streetcar: $20M at most
Transit Center: $80M
Riverwalk: $5M
Courthouse Site: $30M for the public portion and the rest funded by a deal with the Hyatt
Shipyards: $20M
Commodore:$$$???


That's $160M total, or less than a half of the Courthouse.

True enough. The Better Jacksonville Plan was to generate $2.2B in sales tax revenue. It came up short, but still generated enough to fund a substantial portion of the proposed BJP. Another similar plan to BJP could continue with these projects and many more with little or no impact to our bottom line. I mean do we really "feel" that extra penny even when times are difficult as they are now. Minimal impact, much benefit.

[exnewsman]

A little more to the thread title, I think we need to make what we have work now before wondering out loud abotu another professional sports franchise. A move up to AAA in baseball might be a more logical step if we do anything. In the distant future - and after we have the Jaguars locked in permantly - then sure NBA, NHL, MLB. Why not dream and then make it happen. Our growth will help dictate how that all plays out.

[ProjectMaximus]

Don't worry guys, we've got lacrosse in the arena!

http://northamericanlacrosseleague.com/splash.cfm?go=article&id=557

[Tacachale]

A little more to the thread title, I think we need to make what we have work now before wondering out loud abotu another professional sports franchise. A move up to AAA in baseball might be a more logical step if we do anything. In the distant future - and after we have the Jaguars locked in permantly - then sure NBA, NHL, MLB. Why not dream and then make it happen. Our growth will help dictate how that all plays out.

I agree entirely. All of the things I mentioned above (baseball, hockey, college hoops, etc) are achievable within 5 years if we put our energies there. AAA baseball could literally happen by next season if we played our cards right. And if we do things right, there's no limit to what we can do in the future.

[I-10east]

I completely disagree with your conclusions, and this from the man least likely to EVER attend a basketball game, NBA, NCAA, or High School, hell I'd rather watch cotton grow.

That we can't manage what we have seems to be the gist of about 75% of the comments posted on this thread, most of which are thinly veiled as supposed "logic" and "reality," etc... I submit to all of you that this is our single biggest enemy in Jacksonville, it isn't IF or WOULD we support a team, business, or concept, it's the fact that so many of our citizens are ready to hang up the closed sign before the idea is even fully developed. What a bunch of defeatists. Had Robert E. Lee, Isoroku Yamamoto, George Washington or Martin Luther King taken such a view we wouldn't even know their names today.

So we are NOT a basketball city? Really? Based on what?

Based on memory? Could it be you are too young to remember the JU Dolphins with one Artis Gilmore who rose from complete obscurity to challenge UCLA for the national title? A city that was painted with Dolphin Green? Chants of "Artis, Arits, Artis..." rising from the city streets as the fever caught hold and even I turned to watch a game on TV.

Based on minor league attendance? That's funny, sort of like saying nobody rides our PCT buses so streetcars will fail. Or better yet, remember when our hockey team went to the "national finals" against the "Fayetteville Fire Ants?" Call it snobbery if you wish, but I'm not going across the street to watch my city of 1.4 million play a game against "Fire Ants." Give me a challenge, send our team against Atlanta, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, Portland, or Phoenix, but Fayetteville? REALLY? Biloxi and Dogpatch could be next. Yeah, we must not be a hockey city either...

I happen to like our Jags and our "fish" so somebody call me when the Sharks are playing Palatka because only then will you have an apples to apples comparison.

[OCKLAWAHA

Oh yeah, the Jacksonville Lizard Kings in ECHL Hockey filled up the Jax Coliseum with fans in the championship game so that means Jax can easily support the NHL. Spur of the moment success (like Artis's Dolphins back in the day) and supporting a NBA franchise fulltime are apples and oranges. Anybody can sell out with success, how things are gonna go when everything isn't so rosy? A coupla subpar seasons + Jax NBA basketball= another Vancouver.

Sure nuff' Common the NFL Network backs the AFL and the ABA doesn't have that financial backing, BUT the attendance contrast between the two in Jax has much more to do with city passion for the sport (football over b-ball) than anything else.   

[duvaldude08]

I have to admit. Jacksonville IS a football city whether its college, arena or NFL. We love some football

[Ocklawaha]

MEMO:

TO: All posters in the NBA thread

SUBJECT: Projecting a positive public image for the COJ

Effective immediately those posting in this thread will be welcome at the Times-Union Site, your long lost brothers and sisters have been looking for you.

Ocklawaha loves Jacksonville and you've managed to talk him out of it. My son wants us to move to Colorado and frankly right now I can't think of a single POSITIVE reason to stay here! Thanks guys.

God help us if some industrialist or corporate location specialist reads this thread, talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, you've got that down pat.

(NOTE TO SELF - Abandon hope all ye who enter here and leave town ASAP)

WELCOME TO JACKSONVILLE:

The air is polluted, the fish are dead, the downtown is a wasteland, nobody cares, nobody will support anything, the Jags are leaving, all other sports have failed, we're not walkable, we're too dangerous, too sprawled, to broke, don't have mass transit, can't support it if we did have it, JTA is a joke, have substandard pay, substandard lifestyle, depression, abandonment, dispair, nothing to offer, defeated, ill planned, Godless,  and now we finally have a progressive leader... Have no fear Mayor Brown, they'll have you certified as insane for being positive within days.

Message to the mayor from the citizens? If your going to be a positive person or a dreamer please shut-up about Jacksonville, your taking us into unfamiliar territory and we're feeling nauseous.

This is way deeper then some stupid NBA dream team, what I'm reading here is the spirit and soul of the city which ought to scare the hell out of every progressive person in our leadership. We've got problems, big, HUGE.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

LOL, I think a lot of you guys are taking this thread WAAAYYYYY too serious.  It's getting pretty comical now.

[Ocklawaha]

The only thing left for us to do in Jacksonville is to rename the MSA "The Greater Palatka MSA."  Hell if we can just get the last few "believers" to throw in the towel, we could level whatever is left of the town and make the whole place a state historic park.

Almost forgot, too many fire ants for picnics...

OCKLAWAHA

[AFCassidy]

Bringing the NBA to Jacksonville in the next five years is an entirely reasonable goal. 

I'd say there's a 50/50 chance it happens.  But there's a catch.

The Jacksonville Giants in the ABA have proven that, even with a team on a small budget, some fans will turn out for quasi-professional basketball.  They probably gave away more tickets than they sold, but that can be forgiven.

The actual ABA is a joke, it's the same name as the old ABA... but that's it.  Some guy purchased the rights and sells teams to anyone who'll front $10k for a franchise fee.  They have dozens of teams that come online and go out of business each year... and there are dozens and dozens of canceled games each season.  Many teams play in High School gyms with 100 fans or less in the stands.   

Our local team did a great job, considering the league... the Giants were by far the most professional basketball team in the entire ABA. 

Anyway, back to the original point of this - bringing the NBA to Jacksonville.

The arena is too small to support a full NBA franchise and the league would never move a full-blown team here in the next 50 years.  It just will not happen.  If that's what Alvin Brown is saying, then he's smoking dope.

However, the NBA D-League is an entirely different story.

All Brown has to do to declare victory on his "bringing the NBA to Jacksonville" pledge is to convince someone to relocate a D-League franchise here. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_D-League

The D-League brings the NBA brand with it.  The games are sometimes nationally televised on secondary sports stations like Vs. or ESPN2.  The number of fans you need to turn-out for a game is far lower than a full NBA franchise. 

So the team would basically be like the Jacksonville Suns.  Cheap tickets, dollar beer nights and free prize giveaways could keep the arena half-full... which would be good enough.

[dougskiles]

Bring in the D league!  Then we could watch guys play who are hungry to make something for themselves.  Which is the basic reason I like the college game more than NBA.