Presidential address last night

[MusicMan]

Quote from Clem: "If Obama chooses to let the country default, he should be impeached."

HUH?  It is Congress actual job to do this, not Obama's. Even if he went on vacation it is theior job to get it done.

Also, Obama was suberb last night. In 3 sentences he desribed how we goty into this mess, then proposed a balanced approach to get us out.  Boehner was like a spoiled little kid, "if I can't make the rules then I'll take my ball and go home." 

The other total falacy that the Repub's continue to "parrot" is this theory that tax cuts for the weathly create jobs.
Even though there is no eveidence to support this theory. We have had 10 years of this failed experiment, and all we got in return are a dead middle class and 2 % of the population with more money than they could spend in 10 lifetimes.

Demand creates jobs. We have almost destroyed the middle class for the sake of the top 2 %, when will rank and file Repubs figure this out? 

[avs]

^+1.  Anyone who wants to see what everyone fending for themselves and not taxing the wealthy looks like should look at third world governments.  There is virtually no middle class and lower classses are left to fend for themselves and often end up starving and in disastrous situations.  It is absolutely a failed system and does not create jobs.   It leaves money in the hands of a few while everyone else is left to fend for themselves.

[JaxNative68]

Where was all this anger when Reagan and W raised the debt ceiling over and over and over again?  It’s all smoke and mirrors.  The “debt ceiling” was adopted in in 1917 when the president controlled the government’s budget.  It was Congress’ way of keep a check and balance on the presidential spending.  Since 1974 congress has controlled the budget.  The Treasury only borrows the money the amount of money the congress asks for.  There is no debt limit in the constitution.  The problem is congress can’t agree on an annual budget that works without tacking on additional dollars for their own personal agendas.  Obama is in a lose-lose situation.  If he obeys the debt ceiling, he can’t spend the money congress has already approved him to spend, which shuts down government â€" and everyone faults him.  If he spends the money congress has already approved him to spend, he violates the “debt ceiling” â€" and everyone faults him.  The “debt ceiling” actually makes the President less accountable to the Congress and the Congress more accountable to the President and the American people.  We should be holding the ones accountable who actually pass the annual comprehensive budget that details how the government taxes and spends and how much the Treasury Department is allowed to borrow…. Heelllllooooooooo Congress.  Personally I’m not going to worry about it until Boehner publicly sheds a few tears.  Then I’ll believe he is serious.  Our country has been down this road many times before without you knowing it â€" mainly because there was no real political gain to be had by either party.  Right now government is doing what they do best, they are being obscurely clear, which is the best way to keep you believing in the particular political party you subscribe.  If you truly want something done, pressure the congress person you voted into office.  Demand they do their jobs.

[Dashing Dan]

I think I'll set my own personal debt ceiling.

If Obama doesn't agree that I should raise it, then I'll blame Obama when my creditors come looking for me.

[Garden guy]

Debt...debt...what do so many not understand...under democratic rule we had no debt and jobs were aplenty...post republicans= debt and no jobs.....the debt is at the feet of the republicans...where is the confusion and why are we still listening to any republican when it comes to money...why? They fucked up...someone tell them to shut the hell up and go serve water or something constructive.

[avs]

The majority of the debt being debated now comes from Reagan and George the first.  It was compounded under W.  They created it and have always voted to raise it and now that its under a demoratic President they are using it as political leverage.  Its ridiculuous

[NotNow]

Sooooo...you guys support the administration's plan then?  $16 Trillion dollars in debt by the end of his first term?  At least $20 Trillion in debt by the end of a second Obama term?

[Jimmy]

George W. Bush's chickens are coming home to roost.  Republicans want to "correct" the gross mismanagement of the 2000s by sticking poor and working people with the bill.  Bump that.

Lay the bill for Bush's misadventures and follies at the feet of big business and the wealthiest workers.  They're the ones who prospered under the Bush policies.  They need to pay the piper now.

[Dashing Dan]

Congress passes the budget and sets tax rates.

Congress can decide for themselves whether or not to raise enough money to keep paying for the stuff that Congress has already authorized. 

If Congress decides not to raise enough money, then it's up to Congress to raise the debt ceiling.

If the US is in debt what makes the president responsible? 

I'd prefer to hear the answer from someone on the right, but at this point I'd welcome an explanation from anybody.

[NotNow]

Finally DD, a post that seems to be written with some thought.  You are right, congress is responsible.  The house has passed two bills which the senate has not even considered.  Prior to that, two other plans were put forth by the house.  What other congressional answer has been put forth?  Is there a Democrat plan from the house?  From the senate?  From the President?  If there is, I would appreciate a link to it, because I can't find one.   Don't point me to "talking point" website, show me the legislation.

It might be that it is better to have this showdown now rather than waiting for real bankruptcy, when we just can't pay the bills.  Does anyone here really think that Medicare is going to remain viable in its current form for 30 or 40 years?  Every study I have seen, including the one put out by the Obama administration last year, says that is impossible.  Is there anyone here who really thinks that we can continue to spend $1 - 1.5 Trillion dollars more than we take in annually?  If so, can you show me where the interest on that debt won't consume the entire federal budget within a lifetime? 

Jimmy. we could tax the "rich" ($200k or more?) at 50% and that wouldn't make much of a dent.  I'm not sure how classifying people as "responsible" based on their income came to you, but it seems like a bad idea to me.  I shouldn't have to explain why.

This is a difference in philosophy of government. 

[Jimmy]

NN, the words you're trying to put in my mouth don't seem to fit.  Nowhere did I say to tax the "rich."  I said wealthier workers.  I would be fine returning to tax rates in place in the 90s or even during the Reagan era.  That would go a long way toward stemming the tide of this debt.  We were running surpluses in the late 90s.

Foreign misadventures have dug us a deep hole.  I lean with my libertarian friends toward calling back in the empire.  At least, let's close out the wars we're involved in and not start any new ones.

Republicans have dug for us a deep hole by funding these wars, adding on the prescription drug entitlement (without the tools needed to cut costs), and the TARP bailout.  They were aided more often than not by Democrats in saddling us with this unsustainable low tax rate.  It's time to pay the piper.

We need three legs for the 2011 deficit reduction stool.  Cut spending, raise revenue, and raise the debt ceiling for a meaningful time period.  It seems the President has met Republicans more than halfway by agreeing to their spending cuts.  Where are they on revenue increase?  Why do they propose a debt ceiling that will mire us in this discussion yet again before the next election?  Why do they play this perverse game of chicken with disaster?  I don't know.  Those are rhetorical questions.  You don't know either.

[Garden guy]

Sooooo...you guys support the administration's plan then?  $16 Trillion dollars in debt by the end of his first term?  At least $20 Trillion in debt by the end of a second Obama term?

Debt caused by the previous president..mr bush...16 trillion...exactly...that's what is takes to repair the damage the wealthy have done to our country...remember...there was no debt...there was money in the fucking bank....what about that do people not understand?...we had money..now we have none and are in debt...all of that at the hand of the wealthy republicans...lay this at their feet.

[MusicMan]

This monstrous debt wouldn't be so bad if we had something to show for it. Instead we have nothing. All the Trillions spent on war in the middle east could have been invested here. It could have transformed us again into the worlds leading manufacturer of solar and wind powered devices, we could have repaired our crumbling infrastructure, we could have educated our citizens.....

Instead we got lots of great kids shipped home in body bags and the middle east remains a hell hole. Oh Yeah, and an unbelievably wealthy top 2%.

P.S. The Bush tax cuts added about 2 Trillion $$ to the debt: when do we get the return on that investment?
       The Bush wars added another 2 TRillion $$.  When we will get the return on that investment???

[NotNow]

Jimmy, I suppose then that I would need your definition of "big business" and "wealthiest workers" before I could respond.  My point stands (actually DD's) that this ball rests squarely with congress.  The house has passed legislation, why doesn't the senate vote on it?  Where is the Democrat legislation?  What the Republicans (at least some of them) are trying to do is not increase the size of the federal government and stop this crazy deficit spending. 

Without rehashing the last twenty years, let's just agree that the current way of doing business is not workable.

GG, with all due respect, your numbers are just...wrong.  Try reading up.  Ranting is not debating, but if that is what you want to do...OK.

[Jimmy]

I can't put it better than MusicMan.  We have seriously squandered our future.  And the ideology that placed us into this ruin now plays the victim and pretends to innocence. 

August 2 is around the corner.  A part of me would be content to see the GOP gets its wish and default on our debt.  But since too many people would be hurt by that folly, I hope that Congress can be bent around to a reasonable compromise.  I think even the corporate masters of the GOP have had enough of this tea party/kill government nonsense.  We'll find out soon enough.