Mayor Questions Validity of JTA's Transportation Center

[Ocklawaha]

Yes Mr. Arrington, it IS a very complex piece of property... YOU DESIGNED THE FUBAR RIGHT INTO THE PLAN!

SO HERE IT IS FOLKS - THE JTA/FDOT SCHEME


A STATION FOR AMTRAK



A "STATION" FOR EMPLOYEES



A STATION FOR THE SKYWAY



A STATION FOR THE JTA BUS



AND A STATION FOR GREYHOUND







THE GRAND MJ SCHEME...


A STATION

OCKLAWAHA

[brainstormer]

Right on, Ock!  Silly us.  The station has been there all along!   

[blizz01]

+1

[JeffreyS]

Ock that was better than all the posts about this put together.  You get extra credit.

[Jaxson]

Ock is 100% correct.  I wonder if JTA wants a real solution or wants to build a Taj Mahal...

[Ocklawaha]

Well here are some numbers, and if the Mayor is reading this PLEASE check my facts.

The old station contained:
RPO - Railway Post Office
Baggage Rooms and Claim (Home of a railroad industry legend, a crime stopping BOB CAT in a trunk.)
Railway Express Agency
Travelers Aid
3 shops, gifts, snacks and news.
Car Rental
The BEST RESTAURANT in town (especially for breakfast)
Ladies Lounge
Men's Lounge
White and Black waiting room which was merged into the main waiting room
ticket offices and windows for 4 major railroads
Offices for a number of other railroads (sales agents)

It handled 250 trains a day at its peak with 41,000 daily passengers or 15,000,000 passengers per year. It even did this AFTER the black waiting room was closed off. That's more passengers per year then all of Greyhound, Amtrak, JTA BUSES, and the Skyway combined...

...and Steve Arrington thinks we'll need 5 more depots just to handle the crowds and TOD the JRTC will generate?
Really? Seriously? Oh Please!

OCKLAWAHA

[TheProfessor]

Who is the architect on this project?? The design is terrible not withstanding the lack of functionality.

[thelakelander]

I'll have to go and check for sure but I believe the JRTC's architect is RS&H.

[dnix]

I've been a casual reader of the blog for some time, but I can't help but speak up after reading this article. I really appreciate and respect the post and the conversation that has been sparked as a result -- I for one am completely floored by this project's state of affairs.

I admit I have been extraordinarily excited about the idea of a consolidated transportation center -- dare I say, an urban hub -- in Jax since the idea's very inception, but I had not expected to see such a vapid, banal, convoluted proposal be issued without jest.

This is such a phenomenal opportunity for Jacksonville to take a step forward as a city, and it is one that effects every community in our conglomerate of urban, semi-urban and suburban neighborhoods. This hub is an emblematic gateway for our city, nothing less. If we mess this up, we will be stuck with its stain for generations.

With the proposal as-is, I am appalled to see such an arcane separation of services and a total lack of appreciation for crafting a rich, complex architectural solution to a complex urban problem/situation. On top of any functional  criticism one might put forward, there is also a jarring vacancy of poetics in the proposal. More than just saying it is “ugly,” and more than any superficial stylization could possibly compensate, the proposal offers no deep connection to the community and culture within which it sits. Would you be inspired if you arrived (or worked) in such a place? Should a station not inspire? Does this proposal whisper (or scream) “…Jacksonville…” when you imagine standing in or beside it?

Can we not embrace this task with an innovative, progressive attitude towards urban life? Why settle for another thoughtless expression of sprawl that has claimed and, apparently, continues to claim the constitution of our city? We should be treating the site as precious city fabric, not as an expendable suburban commodity.

There are two productive stances as far as I can see: one, design a hub that reflects the complexity and richness of the site and urban context; or two, if no such richness exists, IMAGINE and CREATE a place in which it does. This is a symbol of the city, whether it is regarded as so or not. It is not some vestigial rehashing of a lost time when public transportation meant something to our city. It is about a present and future condition in which we occupy our city and region with the impunity of affordable and responsible mobility.

We need the hub to be a place; a place (not a building, a facility, a lot, a shelter, or a terminus – a PLACE) is only as interesting and valuable as you make it. Such a place provides incentive to -- as well put above -- “create jobs, spur adjacent sustainable transit-oriented development, and become an economic powerhouse for the downtown area.” But it should also be one that inspires and incentivizes a new generation to choose a burgeoning downtown Jacksonville as a place to live and a place to visit. And it MUST – this really is not optional – be an attractive, desirable, and functional place to be.

As a graduate architecture and planning student in Philadelphia at the moment I can be nothing but ashamed with this project as a reflection of my hometown. Is this really the best we can come up with?? This project represents a significant piece of our urban kaleidoscope -- why can’t we treat it with a bit more pomp?

Am I off base to want this for our city? Must we be so myopic? Where is the leadership? Making DT a viable, attractive community -- to the benefit of all of Jacksonville’s factions -- is going to require people to MAKE it so.

JTA and Mayor Brown, please assemble a group of collaborative, innovative (young…? ;-P ) designers, planners, engineers, thinkers (I can tell you that there is plenty of serious talent looking for work out there across the country) to help rethink BOTH the problem and the solution. Jax, FL, and the region will all be the better for it.


(Apologies for the diatribe and certain repetition.)

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'll have to go and check for sure but I believe the JRTC's architect is RS&H.

That wouldn't be a surprise at all.  I hate to speak poorly of a company that I work for every once and a while, but it seems that their whole design team is focused on one thing - inexpensive - although their prices don't reflect that.

Every design that I've seen from them over the past several years has a copy and paste feel to it.  I briefly mentioned them in another thread for the same reason.  I've reviewed several drawings that are identical to one another in scope, materials, spec, etc....  Boxes.  Stucco.  Industrial.  They've apparently lost any kind of innovation and seem to keep using the same generic school/hospital template for anything that they do.

Until people quit paying them good money for effortless design, I would imagine that they'll keep doing more of the same.

[thelakelander]

Here is a closer look at the Salt Lake City Intermodal Hub.  Modes served include Amtrak, Greyhound, UTA TRAX light rail, UTA frontrunner commuter rail and UTA local bus service.  The price tag for this intermodal facility was a little over $20 million.



Major differences between this center and JTA's $180 million proposed JRTC:

1. JRTC includes an office building for JTA

2. JRTC includes two parking garages with over 2,000 spaces

3. The Salt Lake City hub is all on ground level (no need for elevators, pedestrian overpasses, etc.)

4. Salt Lake City's local bus and Greyhound operations share the same apron.





Salt Lake City's hub also includes a bike transit center.  I wonder if we have considered one for the JRTC?

On September 25th, the Canyon Sports Bicycle Transit Center (BTC) opened in Salt Lake City at the Intermodal Hub. The new facility combines self-service bicycle storage for commuters, shower facilities, do it yourself repair facilities along with a full service bike shop. The facility was funded through a partnership of the Utah Transit Authority, Salt Lake City, Wasatch Front Regional Council, Utah Department of Transportation, U.S. Department of Energy and the Salt Lake City Mayor’s Bicycle Advisory Committee and will be run by Canyon Sports.

The BTC will have storage for 86 bicycles. Memberships are needed to store a bicycle and are available on a daily, monthly, or yearly basis for $2, $12, or $96 respectively.

The BTC is located in the UTA Intermodal Hub at 250 S., 600 W. in Salt Lake City.

Find out more at bicycletransitcenter.com or call 801-359-0814.

http://www.cyclingutah.com/advocacy/road-advocacy/canyon-sports-bicycle-transit-center-opens/


Rail platforms at grade level in Salt Lake City.

[thelakelander]

Detroit's recently completed $22.5 million Rosa Parks Transit Center.  Modes served include the Detroit People mover, local bus and Detroit's LRT starter line (construction starts this year).






Transferring between modes doesn't involve walking multiple blocks.

Located at Michigan and Cass Avenues, the Rosa Parks Transit Center is a 25,000-square-foot indoor facility with over two acres of exterior transit access. It enables customers to make connections to 21 DDOT bus routes, the SMART suburban bus system, Transit Windsor for international connections, and taxi access in a single downtown transportation hub. It also provides pedestrian connectivity to the Detroit People Mover stations at Michigan and Times Square, and was planned to eventually connect to the city’s future light rail transit system.

http://michpics.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/the-bus-stops-here-detroits-rosa-parks-transit-center/

[thelakelander]

Fort Worth's Intermodal Transportation Center.  Modes served include Amtrak, Greyhound, local bus and TRE commuter rail.  Again, everything is basically at ground level.


A single platform serves local bus, Amtrak and TRE commuter rail, making transferring easy and construction cheap.


A single terminal building serves all modes.

[tufsu1]

I'll have to go and check for sure but I believe the JRTC's architect is RS&H.

teamed with AECOM

[Dashing Dan]

AECOM = formerly DMJM