Get rid of Hemming Park's amenities to deal with vagrant problem?

[thelakelander]

This would be a horrible expensive disaster, imo.  Hopefully, the Alvin Brown Administration will have people on staff who realize that you can't revitalize downtown by removing amenities just because vagrants enjoy them too.

If we want fewer vacant buildings downtown and more people walking on its sidewalks, we first have to deal with the "vagrants or transients" that have taken over key parts of downtown.

Here's just one example of what occurs downtown every day.

Last Monday afternoon on July Fourth, I took a walk on the Northbank Riverwalk.

The area under the Acosta Bridge was full of the above-mentioned people.

Some slept on the benches. One asked for money. Two men urinated in public even though there was a public restroom nearby.

Too often, that's "the impression downtown gives its visitors."

These same people take over Hemming Plaza in the heart of our government complex on weekdays.

If Mayor Alvin Brown wants to meet his goal of revitalizing downtown, he will have to confront this problem head on.

What to do?

One proposal floating around is to redesign Hemming Plaza.

A number of the plaza's oak trees are reaching the end of their life spans. Take them down and replace them with plantings that give the plaza a more open feel.

Then take out the benches, tables and checker boards. Eliminate the places to lounge all day, and the vagrants and transients will relocate.

Deal with the homeless problem. Finally establish a much talked-about day center away from the heart of downtown where the homeless will have a safe place to stay when the overnight shelters are closed, to use the restroom, to shower, to get counseling.

full Littlepage editorial: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400601/ron-littlepage/2011-07-07/fixing-downtown-starts-homeless

[danno]

Thats just plain dumb.

[fsujax]

I would like to see Hemming Park redone. Take it back to the way it used to look. Don't know that we have to get ride of all the amenities though.

[ChriswUfGator]

Littlepage's approach is dumb as $h!t.

Call me nuts, but if you hadn't already ripped out all the public bathrooms in a long-running and misguided effort to get rid of the homeless, maybe they wouldn't be crapping in your flower planters? (Referring to the Knothead vid) If you want to fix the homeless problem, then give them someplace to be, and the mental health treatment many of them need. This is really not a hard problem to solve, since it's not legal to euthanize them (though that would no doubt please a certain restaurant owner downtown, along with several regular posters on this site), the only other option is to take the "home-less" out of the "homeless." It couldn't be more easy to figure out. But instead, people would rather rip out all the restrooms to spite them, and then bitch when they piss in public. WTF did you think was going to happen?

The solution isn't just ripping out benches, chess tables, restrooms, parks, and everything else the homeless might use. Because then the rest of us can't use that stuff either.

[Dog Walker]

Please don't take the amenities for the layabouts out of Hemming Plaza without moving them somewhere else.  More of them would just camp out in the Main Library and that's already a problem; under control, but still a problem.

[Bativac]

Talk about a stupid idea. What we need to do is just install metal spikes on every horizontal surface. That will prevent sitting, laying, loitering, relaxing, hanging out, etc.

Actually, why don't we just fence off Hemming Plaza? Feel free to look at it! I'm sure the city can get a great deal on a chain link fence. Then we can all enjoy the beauty of Hemming Plaza with none of the annoying "mixed use."

Honestly - I am the last person on earth who will advocate giving homeless people a handout. But it is a given that there are going to be homeless people - a wave of the hand will not make them vanish, and resurfacing every single park and vacant lot downtown won't make them disappear. We also cannot force their excretory systems to excrete spring water and gold nuggets. So the only viable solution is to spend some money on some kind of day center or "hangout place" where they can relax, use the bathroom, clean themselves, etc. It doesn't have to be a palace, but it shouldn't be a prison, either. Provide a couple counselors for the people who want them. Provide some limited internet access similar to what the library allows.

I think most of the homeless people downtown are just people who are homeless. There are some "bums" and aggressive panhandlers who give us a bad impression of the whole bunch. But making usable and pleasant areas into un-usable and unpleasant areas helps no-one. Getting angry at the homeless helps no-one. And we're going to pay for them whether they're in prison or in a (presumably cheaper) zero-security day center. Why not just spend the money on giving them a place to spend time during the day?

[duvaldude08]

Well the Homeless Day Center is supposed to break ground later this year so this whole article was pointless. And If anything, restore Hemming Plaza to its former, put in the anit-homeless like the ones installed at friendship park and problem solved.

[Jumpinjack]

My big gripe about Hemming Plaza is that stage at the end of the park where people with microphones and huge speakers are able to blast their personal propaganda at everyone from one end of the park to the other. Who gives them permission or a permit to scream at the rest of us?

You don't need to cut down trees and remove benches to stop some of the offensive stuff going on.

[Jaxson]

When did the city plant the oaks?  If they were planted at the time of the Park-to Plaza transition, why did they not have the foresight to plant trees that would not die within a few years?

[Ralph W]

I think one method to deal with the sanitary problem during the day is to have the overnight centers, normally CLOSED during the day, opened around the clock to help address this problem. If the people who utilize these centers at night are told they might lose the privilege, they might then take care of business in a responsible manner.

If they have the ability to line up for the free meals and the cots they have the ability to follow all the rules.

Regarding the "much talked about" day center: Just how many of the current centers could be converted to full time use without another capital expenditure by the city? The current centers are not all centrally located so an overwhelming influx of "homeless" should not happen in one close in area as would happen if there was a day center.

If one of the objects is to hide the number and effect of the homeless, then spreading them out would be a good idea. If desirable amenities could be provided at each location then there would be an incentive to forgo congregating in areas that offend the landed gentry.

As to the removal of items that would promote sitting around, playing chess, strumming a guitar, reading, talking, business (non-sunshine) meetings, eating lunch, etc. Screw that. You might  just as well walk into city hall and stand in the middle of the sterile foyer.

Why not turn the whole plaza over to JTA, fence it in and require one of those new smart cards to gain entry. That would be sure to keep the riff-raff out, develop an elitist clientele and maybe make some money to maintain the grounds. 

[Ethylene]

My big gripe about Hemming Plaza is that stage at the end of the park where people with microphones and huge speakers are able to blast their personal propaganda at everyone from one end of the park to the other. Who gives them permission or a permit to scream at the rest of us?

You don't need to cut down trees and remove benches to stop some of the offensive stuff going on.

Such gatherings are "permitted" officially by COJ!

[Kay]

But removing shade trees is not the way to go.  We need more shade, not less.  I never liked the idea of permanently affixing furniture so that it couldn't be moved around.  It should be flexible so you can pull a chair up if you need more seats.

You should never design something to keep certain elements away.  Project for Public Spaces will tell you that. 

[Bridges]

He does have the right idea.  The city has got to develop a better policy for the homeless other than 'dump them all downtown and make them wander the streets like the living dead'

Maybe they could have a study.  And it could be titled "Ending Homelessness in Jacksonville: A Ten Year Plan".  And they could go back in time and do it in 2004, and we'd be over halfway through it by now if we stick to it.  Maybe they'd be kind enough to put it online, so that I could link to it.  I'd put it here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEMQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abilityhousing.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F03%2FBlueprint%2520final.pdf&rct=j&q=plan%20to%20end%20homelessness%20jacksonville&ei=DzEXTqfOK-nj0QHE5M1i&usg=AFQjCNH2oTLM2TbSqy4wnEVvHRx_MkDzfw&cad=rja *Warning PDF*

But if we can't do that, maybe we could at least give it the proper attention it deserves. Maybe that's too many maybes.  How about no more "maybe we should do this".  How about we stop acting like this is some kind of nuisance, and view it as a real problem affecting real people.

[Debbie Thompson]

Silly idea.  Why don't we just strip downtown of nearly every amenity, tear down all the historic buildings that add character, institute parking meters so we can't compete with free parking in the suburbs and all our retail moves out, and have a bunch of open parking lots, so no one will want to be there?  Oh wait....we already did that. 

[Jaxson]

Silly idea.  Why don't we just strip downtown of nearly every amenity, tear down all the historic buildings that add character, institute parking meters so we can't compete with free parking in the suburbs and all our retail moves out, and have a bunch of open parking lots, so no one will want to be there?  Oh wait....we already did that. 

LOL!!!