Obama is Renewing the American Sense of Identity. Unbelievable to Watch

[thelakelander]

Driven, Stephen.  Lets keep this debate on topic and not dive into personal jabs.

[Driven1]

recent proven history (just view his last few posts on this thread) has proven that it is difficult for stephendare to not get personal in these issues...

i agree completely lake.

[Downtown Dweller]

Do women shave their legs in OR?

Nuff said LOL!!!

[Driven1]

from wikipedia...

Populism is a discourse which supports "the people" versus "the elites". Populism may involve either a political philosophy urging social and political system changes and/or a rhetorical style, deployed by members of political or social movements competing for advantage within the existing party system.

Obama is populism defined.

[Driven1]

[stug]

I happened to be at the Obama rally in Portland this weekend and it was beyond description. To share a space with that many people, all of them there with the desire to facilitate positive change in our government â€" it was moving, as cheesy as that sounds.

And, Downtown Dweller, I can assure you women in Portland shave their legs (not that they should have to), although I'm not sure why that's relevant.

[Driven1]

look at that crowd!!!  as far as the eye can see.

[Charleston native]

Can you point out a few examples of the subtle hints in his speeches and voting his record?

I thought some of those were covered earlier in this thread, but sure, I'll point out a few:

Quote from keynote address to Sojourners:

For one thing, I believed and still believe in the power of African-American religious tradition to spur social change. . . . the black church understands in an intimate way the biblical call to feed the hungry and cloth the naked and challenge the powers and principalities. . . .

Right, so what is he implying with the "white" church? Every "white" church I've ever been in has sponsored soup kitchens, shelters, domestic and international hunger/poverty missions, and community outreach such as Habitat for Humanity. As far as challenging powers and principalities...uh, last time I checked, that wasn't a Christian's main responsibility.

What remains for the GOP is a campaign premised more on issues of national identity, aimed largely at that portion of our population for which ‘American’ is synonymous with ‘white’ and ‘Christian,’ than any national campaign has been since the American Party (also known as the Know Nothings) based its 1856 campaign chiefly on Protestant bigotry against Irish and German Catholic immigrants.

Hmmm...notice the subtle, racism hint, there?

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them…And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Sorry to dispell Stephen's comment about this being an "urban legend" or "political lie", but Obama did say this. If you can't read between the lines here, I can't help you. As a matter of fact, he tried to explain himself, and his true beliefs still hover around:

There are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my home town in Illinois, who are bitter. They are angry… So I said, well ya know, when you’re bitter, you turn to what you can count on. So people, ya know they vote about guns or they take comfort from their faith, and their family, and their community, and they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country, or they get frustrated about how things are changing. That’s a natural response.

His voting record is another matter of research that I cannot delve into right now. I've used up ALOT of work time doing this post. I'll be happy to post some aspects of his voting record a little later.

[Driven1]

those evil, evil money makers.  i think i'm catching on to your idea here stephendare.  we should all rise up and overthrow the rich and take all their belongings so the middle class and lower class can have the things they never have and so everything is fair (example:  it is NOT FAIR that they own 95% of the wealth - as you purport with no fact source given - and yet only pay 68% of the taxes).  we'll show them...we'll make it fair.

Driven, you explain why its fair?

ah...that's cute.  he thought capitalism was chiefly predicated on "fairness".

[Driven1]

So Charleston.

If someone is being a racist, is it automatically racist to call them out for it?

in an election year, no.

[Driven1]

Since, unlike yourself, I have raised a couple of kids, I know exactly how seriously to take the rants of little boys.  Someday, when you have a couple of your own, you will know what Im talking about.

a) you never had children yourself
b) i think my (& the rest of our readers') definition of "raising kids" would be greatly more socially acceptable than yours may be
c) none of this prevents you from now being the local authority on yet another topic - child rearing raising.

[thelakelander]

I don't find any of those statements, Charleston just posted, as being racist.  Just a different point of view.  A perspective that is quite popular in Americas minority dominated communities.  Our churches are culturally different, some of us are bitter with the way things have been run in this country (I'm one of those bitter people, but I don't cling to religion or guns) and many times, things one may assume as being "American" (like wearing a lapel pin), may not be as important to other American citizens.  One of this country's best feature is its cultural diversity.  We're so diverse and come from so many different backgrounds that the defination of each of these things will change from person to person.  This is why we should stick and hold these candidate's feet to the fire on real issues like the economy, the war, instead of labeling views we don't necessarily agree with or understand as racist.

[thelakelander]

So ape.  Are we talking about Capitalism or the Government and Income Tax?

BTW, congratulations on the Economy tanking and 133 a barrel oil.

a) you never had children yourself
b) i think my (& the rest of our readers') definition of "raising kids" would be greatly more socially acceptable than yours may be
c) none of this prevents you from now being the local authority on yet another topic - child rearing raising.

Umm, didn't I just ask you two (Stephendare and Driven1) to stop tossing the personal insults at each other?  Cut it out.

[Driven1]

thank you for posting those Charleston.  the more i learn about Obama, the more i hate negroes...er, i mean...i dont like him.  sorry, that one was for stephendare.  

seriously, the more i learn about him, the more i do think that he probably does harbor SOME racist tendencies, but i think i could understand how some minorities could have some racist tendencies, just as some individuals from majority races do.  i understand how he could have them, but he needs to be careful because while these are not blatantly racist-sounding statements, to whites who are questioning - there are a lot of them out there - they will read between the lines and find something there even if there is not anything there to start with.  but then again, that could just be their somewhat racist predisposition to start with.  

[Driven1]

the funny thing is, we are not having any kind of discussion at all about McCain's views on race relations.  i do hope that the election (should Obama win the primary) will not become a massive question on whether Obama is racist or not.  if that is all the opposition has against him (i think there is much, much more - like his lack of true experience and actually telling us what all this "change" is), it is still a sad state of affairs here in the US.