7 Days & Waking Life: Downtown To Come

[5PointsGuy]

Hahaha. Of course. My dad's (Jim Love) a big proponent for revitalizing downtown. If people don't already know, a group of people (I want to say downtown council or something like that, don't remember) take a yearly trip to well adjusted urban areas. I think this past year they went to Indianapolis. He's gone on most of them and has seen what a truly vibrant downtown could offer. Trust me, I let him know what I'm thinking all the time.

[Ocklawaha]

Consider Jacksonville right now is sort of like the battle of Midway... We ain't won the war yet by a damn sight but we've sure got a great start. Let's do it.


OCKLAWAHA

[duvaldude08]

I think this piece is overly optimistic and takes too much for granted.

As of the writing of this article, EverBank has not yet agreed to move downtown, several council members are calling for a moratoreum on fees, Sleiman has yet to get involved with the proposed parking garage to resolve the Landing drama, and Greyhound has expressed reservations about the location as it sits now.

I worry that counting these chickens before they're hatched is just going to get people excited, and then if they don't pan out, just dissapoint people again.

I wouldn't say that big guy. These things wouldn't be announced and taking before the council if they was so much doubt surrounding them. As far as Everbank, is a complete win for them. They have worked with the city before (with the stadium), so Im sure they can come to an agreement.  I don't see how they would lose in this situation. As far as the Landing Parking,  I am sure Slieman is aware of this proposal or it would not exist. Same with greyhound.  At the end of the day, these are proposal's and I wouldn't doubt if the deal(s) ARE tweaked by either party. But Im sure that they will happen. The city is serious and we want this. These are not pie in the sky pipe dreams that we've promised in the past. Everything that is proposed are doable. However, I do want the parking garage deal to be re-looked at, and I do not like the location of the new greyhound station. It needs to be a block closer. I dont care how long it takes, lets just get it done right!

[Ocklawaha]

These are not pie in the sky pipe dreams that we've promised in the past. Everything that is proposed are doable. However, I do want the parking garage deal to be re-looked at, and I do not like the location of the new greyhound station. It needs to be a block closer. I dont care how long it takes, lets just get it done right!

centre
noun (especially US center)

middle
1 [countable] the middle point or part of something
the centre of a circle
a long table in the centre of the room
chocolates with soft centres

town/city
2 [countable] (especially British English) (North American English usually downtown [usually singular])
a town-centre car park;
a place where a lot of business or cultural activity takes place

building
4 [countable] a building [singular] or place used for a particular purpose or activity
a shopping/sports/leisure/community centrethe Centre for Policy Studies

of excellence
5 [countable] centre of excellence a place where a particular kind of work is done extremely well
Darlington could become a regional centre of excellence for nursery nurse training.

of attention
6 [countable, usually singular] the point towards which people direct their attention
Children like to be the centre of attention.The prime minister is at the centre of a political row over leaked Cabinet documents.

in politics
8 (usually the centre) [singular] a moderate (= middle)

in sport
9 [countable] (in some team sports) a player or position in the middle of the pitch/field, court, etc.
Oxford University Press
©2011

WHAT PART OF THIS DOES FDOT AND JTA NOT UNDERSTAND?


A block? I was thinking more like 4 blocks closer in AND PART OF the transportation center. Also who's dumb idea was it to give GREYHOUND the keys, when we have 3 other intercity bus lines and several tour operators running in and out of Jacksonville every day? This needs to be the MOTOR COACH SECTION of the Transportation Center, not a separate island unto itself. ONE STATION, ONE BUILDING, ONE ROOF. Staying with Adams Street or anything else shy of BAY AT LEE, is a recipe for complete and total failure to achieve the goals that make the TRANSPORTATION CENTRE concept work.


OCKLAWAHA

[comncense]

Though I'm happy that there's a chance the current bus station on Forsyth will close, I don't have too much of an opinion one way or another about the new proposed location. I thought that location was proposed because they wanted the transportation center to be located adjacent to the Prime Osborne. If they moved it 1 to 4 blocks closer, wouldn't that call for them to change the scope of the project, which would make it cost more to actually complete?

[duvaldude08]

These are not pie in the sky pipe dreams that we've promised in the past. Everything that is proposed are doable. However, I do want the parking garage deal to be re-looked at, and I do not like the location of the new greyhound station. It needs to be a block closer. I dont care how long it takes, lets just get it done right!

centre
noun (especially US center)

middle
1 [countable] the middle point or part of something
the centre of a circle
a long table in the centre of the room
chocolates with soft centres

town/city
2 [countable] (especially British English) (North American English usually downtown [usually singular])
a town-centre car park;
a place where a lot of business or cultural activity takes place

building
4 [countable] a building [singular] or place used for a particular purpose or activity
a shopping/sports/leisure/community centrethe Centre for Policy Studies

of excellence
5 [countable] centre of excellence a place where a particular kind of work is done extremely well
Darlington could become a regional centre of excellence for nursery nurse training.

of attention
6 [countable, usually singular] the point towards which people direct their attention
Children like to be the centre of attention.The prime minister is at the centre of a political row over leaked Cabinet documents.

in politics
8 (usually the centre) [singular] a moderate (= middle)

in sport
9 [countable] (in some team sports) a player or position in the middle of the pitch/field, court, etc.
Oxford University Press
©2011

WHAT PART OF THIS DOES FDOT AND JTA NOT UNDERSTAND?


A block? I was thinking more like 4 blocks closer in AND PART OF the transportation center. Also who's dumb idea was it to give GREYHOUND the keys, when we have 3 other intercity bus lines and several tour operators running in and out of Jacksonville every day? This needs to be the MOTOR COACH SECTION of the Transportation Center, not a separate island unto itself. ONE STATION, ONE BUILDING, ONE ROOF. Staying with Adams Street or anything else shy of BAY AT LEE, is a recipe for complete and total failure to achieve the goals that make the TRANSPORTATION CENTRE concept work.


OCKLAWAHA

+1000

[heights unknown]

Nothing permanent or long term here; just quick fixes to keep the masses quiet. When is this City finally going to look and act like a City of close to a million people? Probably never. They need to cancel consolidation, annex populated areas around the urban core and downtown outside of the pre-1967 boundaries, which will probably result in a population of a little over 300,000, and then we'll be close to looking and acting like the population that we really are. Pleased with this little "thimble full" of progress, but it's nothing to write home about.

[Jdog]

These are not pie in the sky pipe dreams that we've promised in the past. Everything that is proposed are doable. However, I do want the parking garage deal to be re-looked at, and I do not like the location of the new greyhound station. It needs to be a block closer. I dont care how long it takes, lets just get it done right!

centre
noun (especially US center)

middle
1 [countable] the middle point or part of something
the centre of a circle
a long table in the centre of the room
chocolates with soft centres

town/city
2 [countable] (especially British English) (North American English usually downtown [usually singular])
a town-centre car park;
a place where a lot of business or cultural activity takes place

building
4 [countable] a building [singular] or place used for a particular purpose or activity
a shopping/sports/leisure/community centrethe Centre for Policy Studies

of excellence
5 [countable] centre of excellence a place where a particular kind of work is done extremely well
Darlington could become a regional centre of excellence for nursery nurse training.

of attention
6 [countable, usually singular] the point towards which people direct their attention
Children like to be the centre of attention.The prime minister is at the centre of a political row over leaked Cabinet documents.

in politics
8 (usually the centre) [singular] a moderate (= middle)

in sport
9 [countable] (in some team sports) a player or position in the middle of the pitch/field, court, etc.
Oxford University Press
©2011

WHAT PART OF THIS DOES FDOT AND JTA NOT UNDERSTAND?


A block? I was thinking more like 4 blocks closer in AND PART OF the transportation center. Also who's dumb idea was it to give GREYHOUND the keys, when we have 3 other intercity bus lines and several tour operators running in and out of Jacksonville every day? This needs to be the MOTOR COACH SECTION of the Transportation Center, not a separate island unto itself. ONE STATION, ONE BUILDING, ONE ROOF. Staying with Adams Street or anything else shy of BAY AT LEE, is a recipe for complete and total failure to achieve the goals that make the TRANSPORTATION CENTRE concept work.


OCKLAWAHA

+1000

+1000 more

[duvaldude08]

Nothing permanent or long term here; just quick fixes to keep the masses quiet. When is this City finally going to look and act like a City of close to a million people? Probably never. They need to cancel consolidation, annex populated areas around the urban core and downtown outside of the pre-1967 boundaries, which will probably result in a population of a little over 300,000, and then we'll be close to looking and acting like the population that we really are. Pleased with this little "thimble full" of progress, but it's nothing to write home about.

I disagree man. This is ALOt to right home about. For a city that has been sleep for decades, this would be a great start in the right direction. It will not by any means solve the entire situation, but its a good start. I honestly do not think deconsolidation will solve anything. The issue has always been the leadership. Period.

[Ocklawaha]

Nothing permanent or long term here; just quick fixes to keep the masses quiet. When is this City finally going to look and act like a City of close to a million people? Probably never. They need to cancel consolidation, annex populated areas around the urban core and downtown outside of the pre-1967 boundaries, which will probably result in a population of a little over 300,000, and then we'll be close to looking and acting like the population that we really are. Pleased with this little "thimble full" of progress, but it's nothing to write home about.

I disagree man. This is ALOt to right home about. For a city that has been sleep for decades, this would be a great start in the right direction. It will not by any means solve the entire situation, but its a good start. I honestly do not think deconsolidation will solve anything. The issue has always been the leadership. Period.

BINGO! The fact is with or without consolidation we are a METROPOLITAN AREA of 1.4 MILLION PERSONS. Now you can try and split off a few hundred thousand and say "this is who we really are" but then who is fooling who? Put in perspective that "metropolitan area" is the 42Nd largest in the nation, or nearly 3x the population of the entire state of Wyoming, or 2x the state of Alaska. On a worldwide scale we rank around number 500. (Some of my former residences were, Los Angeles #11, Bogota #13, Medellin #62). On October 1, 1968, the governments merged to create the consolidated City of Jacksonville. The new city limits covered an area of 841 square miles, 20 times its former size. Overnight Jacksonville became the largest city in land area in the entire world, a fact that has since been eclipsed by Juneau Alaska. Today, Jacksonville still covers more land area than any other city in the contiguous United States, and has the eleventh largest city area in the world. Jacksonville shares a consolidated government with Duval County, enabling the streamlined delivery of a wide range of services and amenities. Trust me boys and girls, you wouldn't like deconsolidation, it would forever remove us from the precipice of greatness and place us on par with Biloxi. However don't expect great things until we get our citizens and supporters to quit their "Biloxi Blues" thinking and see us for what we really are, first tier? Maybe not, but a big, big dog, nonetheless.

OCKLAWAHA

[tayana42]

The problem with consolidated government is the large size council districts.  The suburbs end up with the greater power (only one council member representing downtown) and the result is a failure to focus on the downtown.  Unlikely that we'll return to pre-consolodation but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

[thelakelander]

^How do consolidated cities like Nashville, Indianapolis, Louisville, New Orleans and Philadelphia resolve this issue to have vibrant downtowns?

[Tacachale]

^I don't buy that consolidation had much actual effect on the conditions of downtown compared to other factors. The core was already declining and the suburbs were already booming at the time, and this pattern was being followed in literally every other Florida metro area of size, with or without consolidation. The difference with consolidation is that folks in the suburbs now pay taxes to, and receive amenities from, the city-county government, rather than the county government as happens in other places. They get the same services they would have and have the same proportional power they would have in a county government like Orange or Hillsborough.

The negative effect of consolidation is in masking the problem somewhat - it's easier to overlook the slower development of the core when Jacksonville as a whole continues to grow and prosper. But the fact that other consolidated cities (or non-consolidated cities with large land areas and low municipal density) have managed to revitalize their downtowns, while some non-consolidated cities struggle, shows that the condition isn't tied to consolidation alone.