DDA

[thelakelander]

Btw, I agree with getting rid of the industrial zoning overlay in the urban core. It's insane that this city limits potential uses for obsolete industrial buildings in and around downtown. It's almost like we want to keep these areas empty and blighted.

[ChriswUfGator]

I'm in Daytona and typing on my phone, but there are some things you've mentioned that are statewide building code requirements that can't be addressed by a local zoning overlay.  I'm all for residential infill in the core as quick as possible. However, I'm coming from a perspective, based off my educational and professional work experience that recognizes many of the things associated with what has been suggested are time consuming to address themselves.  Building code issues aside, we still have to deal with banks lending money, a bad real estate market, permitting, the construction process, etc. To sum it up, even with the most aggressive approach to encouraging residential infill (Philly style property tax abatement, imo), we're still years away from seeing the grand results of such a move.  Thus, it makes sense in my mind to develop short and long term strategies to address the residential component and work at the same time to move both forward.

I just left there, funny coincidence.

Building safety codes are one thing, but zoning is completely within the county's control. And regarding codes for reaidential, just add a sprinkler system and new electric service, and that's really about it provided the building is structurally sound. It's not that hard. I think you built your own multifamily residential building from scratch, which can leave a bad taste in your mouth. There are a lot more hoops to jump through than with retrofitting an exiting structure.

[thelakelander]

but in the end Brown won. He made Jax history and his reason for winning partially had something to do with his position on DT and the urban core. Moving forward, I'd like to see the council districts realigned so that the urban core is actually represented by the council. Right now, it's piecemealed into a variety of districts with neighborhoods who's needs are completely different. This may be the largest difference between us and a place like Nashville or Louisville.

[ChriswUfGator]

I'm in Daytona and typing on my phone, but there are some things you've mentioned that are statewide building code requirements that can't be addressed by a local zoning overlay.  I'm all for residential infill in the core as quick as possible. However, I'm coming from a perspective, based off my educational and professional work experience that recognizes many of the things associated with what has been suggested are time consuming to address themselves.  Building code issues aside, we still have to deal with banks lending money, a bad real estate market, permitting, the construction process, etc. To sum it up, even with the most aggressive approach to encouraging residential infill (Philly style property tax abatement, imo), we're still years away from seeing the grand results of such a move.  Thus, it makes sense in my mind to develop short and long term strategies to address the residential component and work at the same time to move both forward.

Well the specific residential possibilities that I mentioned are all within the local authority.  They have just lacked the willpower to make them happen.

I believe that our local guy is the one who concocted this historic industrial plan in his head, and that is just a decision from his boss to reverse that.  A council exception to the district on Myrtle would take 90 days.

The development dna of our larger zoning codes would take a couple of years to implement.  But the markets are a funny thing.  Once the effort got underway, developers would see the handwriting on the wall and begin jockeying for position under the new ethos before a new zoning prerogative could even be completed.  

Keeping this in mind, I think that we could see movement back towards infill within 3-5years----meaning new buildings constructed----if we immediately commenced on a two fold plan of restoring downtown artificially depressed viability by:

allowing residential to pop up wherever it might like in the downtown,

and removing the toxic downtown policies:

onerous parking penalties and enforcement,
onerous commercial code enforcement
relocating the homeless service complex to either the east side of downtown or the extreme westside.
returning the streets to a two way grid system
utilizing the cities inventory of buildings for density building projects and 'cycling' development.

Downtown literally has everything that it needs to explode.  However it is being held hostage by the city.

+1

Also, COJ has a massive inventory of vacant urban land, that historically they've been unwilling to work with anybody on unless they were meeting the city's vision of suburban cookie-cutter low density office space. That should change, immediately. These were the original higher density urban residential areas that fed downtown. If downtown is ever going to come back, these need to be restored to their original purposes. Put them out for private develolment and offer economic incentives for developers to build high density housing.

[thelakelander]

We're actually all talking semantics.  We're saying the same thing about a short term solution being to modify policy, which includes zoning.  However, the only thing I'm adding to the discussion is that even by doing so, there won't be a significant influx of new infill residential (say +5,000 new units) in 3-5years, due to a number of issues that have little to do with Jacksonville in general.  My stab in the dark is more like 5-10 years.  Nevertheless, while we should make it a priority to address infill residential in the Northbank heart, in the short term (1-3 years) better integrating the adjacent neighborhoods with DT and marketing them together should be pushed forward as well.

[ChriswUfGator]

We're actually all talking semantics.  We're saying the same thing about a short term solution being to modify policy, which includes zoning.  However, the only thing I'm adding to the discussion is that even by doing so, there won't be a significant influx of new infill residential (say +5,000 new units) in 3-5years, due to a number of issues that have little to do with Jacksonville in general.  My stab in the dark is more like 5-10 years.  Nevertheless, while we should make it a priority to address infill residential in the Northbank heart, in the short term (1-3 years) better integrating the adjacent neighborhoods with DT and marketing them together should be pushed forward as well.

I think that could be done immediately. No reason to wait 5-10 years, it's all within our control.

[JeffreyS]

On the Radio today Mayor Elect Brown Mentioned that it is a big problem in Jax that in 86 17% of our tax base was generated by downtown and only 3% today.  Downtown is where our potential ROI is and that message will resonate with the locals we need to help Alvin spread that message.

[ChriswUfGator]

I'm in Daytona and typing on my phone, but there are some things you've mentioned that are statewide building code requirements that can't be addressed by a local zoning overlay.  I'm all for residential infill in the core as quick as possible. However, I'm coming from a perspective, based off my educational and professional work experience that recognizes many of the things associated with what has been suggested are time consuming to address themselves.  Building code issues aside, we still have to deal with banks lending money, a bad real estate market, permitting, the construction process, etc. To sum it up, even with the most aggressive approach to encouraging residential infill (Philly style property tax abatement, imo), we're still years away from seeing the grand results of such a move.  Thus, it makes sense in my mind to develop short and long term strategies to address the residential component and work at the same time to move both forward.

I just left there, funny coincidence.

Building safety codes are one thing, but zoning is completely within the county's control. And regarding codes for reaidential, just add a sprinkler system and new electric service, and that's really about it provided the building is structurally sound. It's not that hard. I think you built your own multifamily residential building from scratch, which can leave a bad taste in your mouth. There are a lot more hoops to jump through than with retrofitting an exiting structure.

In downtown Jacksonville, its actually the opposite.  There are way more hoops to jump through.

Well they've made downtown its own animal haven't they. And I guess if they won't give you the zoning, it's more like a brick wall to jump through, instead of a hoop anyway. Splat!

[ChriswUfGator]

On the Radio today Mayor Elect Brown Mentioned that it is a big problem in Jax that in 86 17% of our tax base was generated by downtown and only 3% today.  Downtown is where our potential ROI is and that message will resonate with the locals we need to help Alvin spread that message.

The more disturbing thing is how much infrastructure us taxpayers had to build in order to fund relocating that 15% of the taxbase to unsustainable and incongruous areas, so private developers could make a profit reinventing the wheel. With a square.

[thelakelander]

We're actually all talking semantics.  We're saying the same thing about a short term solution being to modify policy, which includes zoning.  However, the only thing I'm adding to the discussion is that even by doing so, there won't be a significant influx of new infill residential (say +5,000 new units) in 3-5years, due to a number of issues that have little to do with Jacksonville in general.  My stab in the dark is more like 5-10 years.  Nevertheless, while we should make it a priority to address infill residential in the Northbank heart, in the short term (1-3 years) better integrating the adjacent neighborhoods with DT and marketing them together should be pushed forward as well.

I think that could be done immediately. No reason to wait 5-10 years, it's all within our control.

Immediately = changing policy

The 5-10 years after changing policy = enough time for private sector investment to really make a considerable impact (ex. +5,000 completed residential units).

[JeffreyS]

On the Radio today Mayor Elect Brown Mentioned that it is a big problem in Jax that in 86 17% of our tax base was generated by downtown and only 3% today.  Downtown is where our potential ROI is and that message will resonate with the locals we need to help Alvin spread that message.

The more disturbing thing is how much infrastructure us taxpayers had to build in order to fund relocating that 15% of the taxbase to unsustainable and incongruous areas, so private developers could make a profit reinventing the wheel. With a square.

+1