Why Mike Hogan is the right choice for downtown

[BigGuy219]

As a downtown resident one would think I'd automatically be tossed in the column of Alvin Brown. However, I am convinced that Hogan is the right choice for downtown going forward.

Downtown is not the most important part of Jacksonville. Not while we only have 'about' 2,000 residents. Let's be clear on that. We're just one piece of the mosaic that is Jacksonville, and we shouldn't expect more than the other neighborhoods. It is that kind of arrogant thinking that has caused the outlying neighborhoods to become resentful of downtown.

Let's be clear. Downtown has been successfully used as a wedge issue in this campaign by the Hogan campaign and to great effect. All he had to do was throw up a picture of the Skyway next to a photo of Alvin Brown and he terrified and angered a large percentage of Jacksonville's population.

They're mad at us here downtown, and if Alvin Brown were elected Mayor and taken more of their money and spent it downtown ... the rest of Jacksonville would be coming for us with burning torches and pitchforks. It would have been terrible, and would have resulted in four years of further dividing downtown from the rest of Jacksonville.

Mike Hogan isn't going to reach into the pockets of the hardworking people of Jacksonville to spend on wasteful projects downtown. That will help downtown because it will change public opinion. We have got to get the rest of Jacksonville to support downtown voluntarily, not by forcibly taking their money and wasting it on nonsense.

In a Hogan run city we'll be treated like the rest of the city, and we'll stop feeling entitled, and we'll stop feeling sorry for ourselves. I see this is a great day for Jacksonville and a great oppurtunity for downtown. It's going to take private money to get us out of this 'mess' downtown, not public money. In the pro-business climate of the Hogan administration it will be much easier to invest in and rebuild downtown.

We need to stop thinking we're so important. We need to stop thinking the rest of Jacksonville owes us. It's that kind of talk on our part that has isolated downtown, caused it to continue to decline, and most importantly handed Mike Hogan this election. Just as I told you it would last year.

[BigGuy219]

yes, big guy, we are well acquainted with your out of touch anti black, anti poor views.  Youve made them all quite clear when you were talking about how great Rick Scott was.  Thanks for that by the way.

Rick Scott is doing a heck of a job. Thank God he gave up that ridiculous Federal money for that wasteful rail project. He's in there making the tough calls that are going to get Florida headed back in the right direction.

Just as I predict Mike Hogan will be able to do for us here in Jacksonville.

[mtraininjax]

and most importantly handed Mike Hogan this election.

Nice foreshadowing, but we shall see in a few hours. No matter who wins, there is not enough money in a budget to fix what ails downtown, and government is horrible at creating change, as we have seen. Anything with substance requires voters to pass it, BJP comes to mind or the tolls.

Face it, downtown did not throw up 2 Berkman buildings (one a lovely eye sore), and South bank high rises because the government gave them the capital to do so. So why would anything think that a mayor, either mayor, could do the same? How long has the JEA substation sat empty? How long has the Shipyards remained empty? If government were so efficient and in the development business others here believe it is in business for, we would have new buildings on the plots of land, instead of weeds. Face it all, there is not enough DEMAND to be downtown and builders know where they can get a better return on capital, go where there are people. Until you get more people downtown, jobs and commercial will not get better. No new people until the builders have access to cheaper less risky capital. Its all economics.

[mtraininjax]

how great Rick Scott was

How about present tense, How great Rick Scott IS?!

[JeffreyS]

Downtown is our best potential to improve the qol of the entire city not just it's residents. It also has the best roi potential in terms of tax revenue. When you consider 9b , collins road, atlantic blvd and on and on it is hard to make the case that an inordanant amount of our tax money has been spent on downtown. I follow the logic of your rationalizing to vote for more of the same but in the end it is flawed.

[mtraininjax]

Actually the government did.  Elaine Brown, while on city council negotiated the tax breaks and incentives that made all of those buildings make financial sense to the builders.

Stephen, I am sure that with the tax breaks and Elaine Brown's white kid glove treatment of the developers, no one else was a factor in the building of the downtown condominiums. You had to have people willing to buy them, developers do not turn a shovel without a commitment, no matter how nice of incentives provided. So people had to choose to buy, to fund the rest of the project.

Sure government may have helped "grease the wheels", but government cannot make people buy and purchase properties. So why does JEA still sit empty of that were not the case?

[mtraininjax]

It also has the best roi potential in terms of tax revenue.

Of course it does, the buildings are empty.

If downtown were such a great deal for investors, do you really think they would snub their noses at money? Why invest money in downtown and not know if you can get your money back when you know you can with investments elsewhere in Jacksonville?

Do the people who invest in land and build buildings in town, really know less than the members on this board? Really?

[BigGuy219]

yes, big guy, we are well acquainted with your out of touch anti black, anti poor views.  Youve made them all quite clear when you were talking about how great Rick Scott was.  Thanks for that by the way.

And Stephen, you can start in with the personal attacks all you want. It just shows you still have nothing intelligent to bring to the conversation.

I am not a racist. If I were, I'd live in a gated community in Ponte Vedra. I spend a lot of time in Hemming Plaza among the black community and even invited you to have lunch with me there.

I am against entitlements. I am against handouts. I am against big government 'fixing' problems people make for themselves. We are born equal, but after that we are on our own to make something out of ourselves.

Maybe you're the one who is 'anti-black' if you feel only African Americans are getting the entitlements and handouts I want to see cut.

[JeffreyS]

It also has the best roi potential in terms of tax revenue.

Of course it does, the buildings are empty.

If downtown were such a great deal for investors, do you really think they would snub their noses at money? Why invest money in downtown and not know if you can get your money back when you know you can with investments elsewhere in Jacksonville?

Do the people who invest in land and build buildings in town, really know less than the members on this board? Really?

So we need to solve the problem not villify the area.

[BigGuy219]

It also has the best roi potential in terms of tax revenue.

Of course it does, the buildings are empty.

If downtown were such a great deal for investors, do you really think they would snub their noses at money? Why invest money in downtown and not know if you can get your money back when you know you can with investments elsewhere in Jacksonville?

Do the people who invest in land and build buildings in town, really know less than the members on this board? Really?

So we need to solve the problem not villify the area.

The area has already been villified. Capitalism in a business-friendly environment will solve the problem, as it always does. Government needs to stay out of this. It can only make it worse.

[vicupstate]

Mtrain, Berkman Plaza was built originally as apartments, and not one lease was signed before construction started.  The project was a 'pioneer' in every sense of the word, and would NOT have happened had the city not sweetened the deal with incentives.  Same thing for 11E. and the Carling.

A different developer bought the  Berkman project, and converted it to condos without one unit being pre-sold.

Basically, you don't know what you are talking about.

There probaly isn't one city that hasn't incentivized either residential or non-residential projects in an effort to revive it's Downtown.  The only difference is most of them have been successful, and Jacksonville has not.  

Investment in Downtown stopped when the city (Peyton Admninistrtaion) lost interest in continuing the path Austin/Delaney started.  Plus, the economy tanked.

[BigGuy219]

yes, big guy, we are well acquainted with your out of touch anti black, anti poor views.  Youve made them all quite clear when you were talking about how great Rick Scott was.  Thanks for that by the way.

And Stephen, you can start in with the personal attacks all you want. It just shows you still have nothing intelligent to bring to the conversation.

I am not a racist. If I were, I'd live in a gated community in Ponte Vedra. I spend a lot of time in Hemming Plaza among the black community and even invited you to have lunch with me there.

I am against entitlements. I am against handouts. I am against big government 'fixing' problems people make for themselves. We are born equal, but after that we are on our own to make something out of ourselves.

Maybe you're the one who is 'anti-black' if you feel only African Americans are getting the entitlements and handouts I want to see cut.

Big Guy, didnt you quit this board?  I rather though that we had banned you for the racist chatter.....

Youve already made your obnoxious views known, there was never any doubt that a tea bag transplant from new york was going to vote for whatever vile rightwinger ran for the job.

Frankly Im surprised that you are voting for Hogan, because hes a bit more decent of a human being than your normal choices. Wouldnt you be better off supporting Grady Warren?  Or are you holding out for his presidential bid?

Trust me, that your endorsement doesnt help Hogan at all.  

No Stephen. Never banned, never suspended. And I challenge you to find one thing in my post history that would have been worthy of either. I am a civilized, educated man and I do not make threats, use profanity, or use personal attacks.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

to add to vic's statement, there was also another high-rise upscale condo planned for the southbank, VU.  They were to break ground once The Peninsula was occupied, but the economy made their decision to back out really easy.  As far as incentives, I don't have any inside scoop, but they were going to build in the open field by the school board.....

[PeeJayEss]

Any other "residents" of downtown feeling spoiled? This reads like hyper-partisan delusion. Who is this straw man candidate that is planning to raise taxes and redistribute money to downtown? Is it neither candidate? Just making sure. Brown's stance is simply more appropriate governance of downtown (it shouldn't be run the same as the suburbs). He has vowed not to raise taxes (what taxes really?). You don't seem to have read up on his platform.

Capitalism in a business-friendly environment will solve the problem, as it always does.

Wow. Good point. I remember when capitalism rid the world of smallpox. and when capitalism put satellites in orbit so our phones would work, or when capitalism built power and gas lines so you could power your computer and heat your home. The government sucks!

[wsansewjs]

Trust me, that your endorsement doesnt help Hogan at all.  

I just exploded into laughter after reading that.

-Josh