JTA Eyes Retro Rides as Answer to Growing City

[Traveller]

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- Retro-looking trolleys roll through Downtown every day. But JTA is looking really retro for a way to move people, cut its fuel budget, and spark more growth Downtown.

Linked below is a story put together by Grayson Kamm of First Coast News regarding JTA's plans to bring streetcars back to downtown Jacksonville as part of its overall transportation network.

Video report:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/player.aspx?aid=128236&bw=

Transcript:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=109105&ref=rss

[thelakelander]

With gas approaching $4/gallon and Jacksonville choking in its sprawl, take a look at the early public comments on First Coast News:

How about increasing the frequency of express busses from Mandarin and Orange Park? And I'm sure there are other areas too. The ONLY reason I don't ride is that there are two busses in the morning and two busses home. That's not enough frequency (I don't want 11 hour days). I think every thirty minutes beginning at 6:30 and ending at 8:30 (5 buses) and the same home beginning at 3:30 through 5:30. I'd GLADLY join the commute if I had a few more choices and I'm sure others would too.
- MorkFromOrk - Orange Park


The first time I get a fee entitled the Rettro Ride on my electric bill, I am going to personally go downtown and shove it up Peyton's **** Then I'll stop at the next filling station and happily pump 4.25/Gallon gasoline into my gas guzzler and go back home and gripe about the fuel prices. I'm about to revert back to the old days. I'm going to start riding my horse to work. Sure - he shits a lot but it's no more disgusting that dog turds, trash cans, coke and beer cans and all the other trash thrown about the city's streets.
- FedUp - Jacksonville


AMEN!!! If only I didn't live 35 miles from work...how long do you think it would take me to ride mine to work. Can we get hitching posts put up around the city? And yes, I would rather see piles of horse turds than the garbage laying around the city now. It makes for great fertilizer for the many plants around town!
- NavyMomJax - Callahan


Please forgive the trivia, Do you know Railroad tracks, Model t Cars, and Horse drawn carts have in Common, 2 Horses a##, when you put 2 Horses Beside each other , the carts wheel Should line up with Their A##, when they crap it lubes the wheels. And rail road tracks are the same Size, The romans started this, Sorry for the Craziness of this I Just found its Funny
- Average Richard Cranium - Jacksonville


yeah great, they are thinking about having them run in "historic" springfield......does this mean they will have bullet proof glass or at the least hand out vest to people JUST in case.........seriously what a fluckinng waste of money, how about they sort out the actual tranist system they already HAVE and then pizz around making one for downtown..........surely having all those buses troll into the depot is enough.
- what on earth - Jacksonville


In Portland, OR, we have a wonerful transit system. You can go practially anywhere, the airport, zoo, courthouse, shopping at several differnt malls, the grocery store, etc. I very rarely drove my car. I moved here 10 years ago and was fully planning to use the transit system except I could barely make heads or tails of it. JTA really needs to revamp the system that they already have before wasting money on trying to do this "retro" thing. If JTA was more effective with their bus routes, I am sure that their ridership would increase immensly. They should also offer transfers. That was something else that I noticed they do not have. Every time you get on a bus you have to pay the fare, even if you have not reached your destination. If you have to go downtown to change buses, you pay another fare to get onto your continuing bus. They should also consider additional transfer stations instead of every bus having to go downtown. They could put one at each of the major areas of Jacksonville. Not everyone needs to go downtown. There are just so many things that they need to look at improving before they even begin to consider the street cars.
- Dazed and Confused - Fresno, CA


This might be a decent solution for inside downtown, but how bout thinking about an entire mass-tansit change. For the area this city takes up, its ridiculous we have no decent public transportation. I would gladly ride the bus to work if it didn't take 2.5 hours each way. Jax planners have the most narrow thought process I've ever seen.
- JaxGirl - Jacksonville


JEA is seeing GREEN.
- Can You Believe - Gainesville


I smell another City Hall/Court House fiasco ..Just another mayor peyton money maker (for him)..Why do I have to go to Regency and then downtown and then back to Regency to get to my job at Baymeadows..when I live on Hodges Blvd.... Can't we have a bus or transfers to get me to anywhere in this City without going downtown...Kinda like flying to Atlanta to go anywhere else fm Florida..
- MR GONZO - Jacksonville

[adamh0903]

My comment is right after Mr Gonzo. I normally stay away from Topix.com messege board because it is the cesspit of internet posting, but had to add something to this story.

[Jason]

I now understand why the JTA has such a hard time getting decent input to help in planning their transit strategies.  How could anyone work with comments like some of those?!

JTA is considering four areas for at least one streetcar line running to and from Downtown: Springfield, Riverside, the Sports Complex, and San Marco.

Right now, JTA is conducting six different studies on potential mass transit systems that can all work together in a network, including streetcars, water taxis, commuter rail, dedicated bus lanes, traditional bus routes, and even an expansion to the Skyway Express.

These quotes are very encouraging.  I'm stoked to see that there is still talk of expanding the skyway and maybe even actually finishing it.

[thelakelander]

We'll have to help JTA change this mentality with websites like this that have the ability to illustrate the benefits of diversifying our transit options and the negatives of keeping our heads in the sand.

[Jason]

I'm sure we are already helping   

[fsujax]

See guys not everyone will be supportive of transit improvements (some of those comments are downright stupidity), there will be the "no" transit people coming out of the woodwork. JTA does need all the support it can get.

[thelakelander]

No project, regardless of what it is, will have 100% support.  The key is to find a way to connect improvements with things most of the population can relate to.  This is more difficult with a "downtown only" project in an automobile oriented city.  This is why many of us have suggested a cheaper, suburb connecting commuter rail alternative as a start, as opposed to initially spending more for BRT or light rail in the core only. 

Delaney was successful at getting the Better Jacksonville Plan approved because downtown public improvements were tied in with a plan to improve road and neighborhood specific projects that were attractive to the masses. 

If we want commuter rail, package it with regular road improvements.  For example, lets say the goal is to get commuter rail down FEC's tracks to St. Augustine.  A package deal would include giving Southsiders additional overpasses at tracks on Sunbeam Road, Emerson, Shad or perhaps somewhere in the Southbank.  In this scenerio, this solution would make it easier to strike a deal with FEC because it enhances their capacity and appeal to automobile drivers who can envision not having the possibility of getting stopped by freight trains during their commutes.

[Ocklawaha]

As a function of turning our City into a transit-Disneyland. I have been pushing for the "authentic look" for a long time. I'd break it down thus:


Interurbans doing the heavy work near the stadium.


A trolley bus I won't argue about!


Baymeadows, Deerwood and Town Center alive and well!


A bus borrowed from above, replaces the PCT's.


It just keeps getting better...

Primary Trunk Line.....................Commuter Rail
Work Week Express....................BRT/Express Bus Combos
Crush Load Commuter.................Skyway
Crush Load Tourist.....................Interurban Car on Streetcar route
Heavy Commuter/Tourist.............Streetcars
Typical daily passenger...............Diesel Bus Fleet
Downtown Connector.................Trolley Bus (IE: REAL ELECTRIC Trolley BUS)
Express Connections...................Period Taxi services
Specialty Markets, Town Center...PRT with theme park origins
Light Downtown connector..........period buses, omnibus, jittney...antiques
Light Downtown connector..........Water craft, reproduction mini ferry etc.
Novelty Connectors...................Short Tunnel Trams in segments of downtown
Novelty Connectors....................Horse and carriage services

Automobile Services...................Near Extinct

Jacksonville..............................Near Heaven



In one fell swoop, we take the national lead and become the poster city for "how it's done RIGHT!" Mayor Peyton? Mr. Blaylock? are you listening? Massive sweeping changes... We also need to be the mouthpiece for expansion of Amtrak services, local and regional, meanwhile JTA should be a fixture in EVERY Amtrak Florida timetable.

Cool...

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Ock, how do you feel about Amtrak operated commuter rail lines, as opposed to what the State has set up with Tri-Rail and is attempting to do with Orlando?

[Ocklawaha]

Amtrak Commuter Rail Lines? Frankly, in many cases Amtrak can make this a doable deal... They come to the table as a seasoned carrier that has fought the good fight year after year just to survive, they know how to do that! Further, they come to the table with a great set of toys, sometimes offering rebuilding of certian pieces, locomotives or offering to broker a deal and plug it into one of their mega orders for dsicounts. They are experienced and passenger oriented, failing a private local company to do the job, I would NEVER snub them at the door until we hear what they have to sell. Can we spell "Turn-Key?" I'd say we give them a go and see what happens, certainly on regional trains, GAINEVILLE, TALLAHASSEE, OCALA, VALDOSTA, BRUNSWICK or DAYTONA BEACH... Ir could be in the cards. They contract Washington, Oregon, North Carolina, Missouri, California and Illinois...

Ocklawaha

[second_pancake]

I think OCk, as always, has the right idea and picked up on the comments made by those in regard to the column.  None of them said mass transit was a bad idea, they want it and said they would use it and pointed out specific reasons as to why they don't use it now, most of them duplicating what the person before them or after them stated.  Aside from the comment about "bullet proof glass" in Springfield, I agree with them.  If you're going to start thinking about transit, do it to make things better for the ENTIRE city, or at least where the majority of them work and live.