Downtown Jacksonville Ranks Last For Job Growth

[RockStar]

I don't get it. I didn't make a judgement in my post. You call them the infernal poors. You can read between the lines, but don't read into them.

I simply observed that our government creates policies that look like a helping hand to a drowning person when in fact it's a boot.

As far as being close friends, I haven't. They never make the tee time; the guy at the gate always stops them.

[PeeJayEss]

That said (and I know you were mostly joking), it makes absolutely no sense to send the majority of homeless services to the burbs.

Yes, totally joking.

To the talk of consolidation as a cause of sprawl or cure for financial woes and/or inefficiency, I don't know if its a net positive or negative. Sprawl and white flight occurred all over the country regardless of consolidation status: My home state NJ is a majority post-urban sprawl - even the decently-sized cities (Newark, Camden) are suburb-cities of their larger neighbors (NY and Philly, respectively). None of these are within the boundaries (or even states) of the cities to which they are suburbs. I wouldn't say its the consolidation (though it may contribute), but the auto-centric development and need-a-lawn brainwashing that are the main culprits.

That said, I agree totally with the aim of de-consolidation. There needs to be authorities looking out for the interests of the core and the burbs separately. I think you can create a viable framework to do this even with consolidation.

Nice people, homelessness is a symptom, neither a cause nor a cure for downtown's stagnation. When downtown becomes vibrant again, the homeless will benefit right along with the rest of us. Job's are for everyone and excellence in Mass Transit attracts excellent jobs and lifestyle choices.

OCKLAWAHA

Well put!

[RockStar]

I don't get it. I didn't make a judgement in my post. You call them the infernal poors. You can read between the lines, but don't read into them.

I simply observed that our government creates policies that look like a helping hand to a drowning person when in fact it's a boot.

As far as being close friends, I haven't. They never make the tee time; the guy at the gate always stops them.

The reason that world continues to have poverty is because baby making is more profitable than minimum wage and there are better tax benefits.  That is what you said.

When did I say anything about the world? That is what you read, not what I said.

[RockStar]

The one our government pays lip service to.

I'd continue this, but my champagne is getting warm and my crepes suzette is getting cold.

[simms3]

Well I can tell you that there are cities in America with far far more visible homeless vagrants all over the place and each one is still thriving to an extent Jacksonville simply cannot fathom: San Francisco, New York, Washington D.C., and Atlanta are all major homeless hotspots.  Also, I don't feel sorry for or pity for homeless beggers.  They suck and are worthless human beings.  If you have lived near hoards of them and have had to encounter them everyday or if you have ever worked many times at shelters/centers then you will realize that while some have problems that should be treated by society, many are just lazy SOBs with major attitude.

Also, politicians in the "pockets of 'developers'" is an attitude that is a little worrisome to me.  In some cities, politicians are in the pockets of urban developers, too, and politicians in the pockets of anyone is a problem.  That being said, developers aren't evil.  They are running businesses.  Developers are also responsible for every rehabilitation project, every condo high-rise in the core, every downtown office tower, etc etc.  Most developers do both urban and suburban projects through various entities, but many do focus just on Green and/or urban infill projects (obviously we don't have those in Jacksonville).

Also, Louisville and Indianapolis are much "tighter" cities than Jacksonville in city services/land area/everything.  Nashville sprawls more than Jacksonville, but is a *much* more progressive city than Jacksonville will ever be.  I think it's a leadership issue more than anything, but I do think de-consolidation can actually help our city in our particular case.

I am not shocked by this study.  Also Charlotte's Uptown is doing fine.  Was there in September for the first time and was actually blown away by it.  It was like a very clean, very fresh/new downtown Atlanta (and close to the same size).  People were everywhere and the only place I can remember that had as many restaurants packed into such a tight space was New York (and Chicago).  Charlotte actually had more eats on any given block than any area I have seen in DC!

[urbaknight]

Vaporizing before our eyes.  Stunning statistics.  

I'd like to see the candidates acknowledge and respond.  

Well knowing how stubborn Mike Hogan is it would probably make him say "see all the more reason to leave downtown."  These numbers will only get worse under his rein

There is a flip side.  I'd challenge anyone to find one major american city that hasn't made investing in their downtown/core a priority over the last 20 years, succeeding economically.  It's already well proven that sprawl is unsustainable.  Even poster child sprawlers like Phoenix, Atlanta and San Jose have and continue to invest heavily in their urban core environments.  Anyone who downplays the economic importance a downtown on a city locally will be a trend setter if they pull it off or a fool (given the success numbers the other way) if they don't.

Are you keeping up with the state legislature?  See the Orlando Sentinel's article today: "Florida House Rolls Back Most Controls on Urban Sprawl."   

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/legislature/os-urban-sprawl-florida-house-20110421,0,1865936.story

It's not a surprise, you know the COJ is loving this bill. They probably think dirty thoughts when reading it!

[mtraininjax]

Why is it that no one is discussing the BUSINESSes that are in these downtowns and the rock anchors that have been a part of them in education as well?

We do have CSX as a major downtown tenant, but they really do not make Jacksonville a transportation town, just because they are here. Yes we have 1504 rusting its guts out at the CC, but what do we do to commemorate our transportation era when we were the busiest station in the world in the 1920s? Nothing really. We have a nice maritime museum, but it REALLY needs a much larger presence, tied to the ship we want downtown and hey, it would be great to have the public dock.

We've lost banks and insurance industries to elsewhere. So what business downtown do we really have, besides CSX, that is Fortune 500 company with some real power for Jax? Everbank could eventually be a player. Fortegra moved to the suburbs, so did Modis/Addecco, is our downtown destined to fail because everytime someone puts ROOTS downtown, someone comes along and buys the company and moves it further out for cheaper land?

At some point Dr. Wallace of FCSJ needs to step up and take over more of the buildings and space for the university. At some point UNF and JU need to have more of a presence downtown as well. If no corporate group can come in and be a major player, we need education to step up and take charge. If education can lead the way, it can show that our downtown is more than just empty buildings. Just a thought.

[jcjohnpaint]

I don't see how consolidation has anything to do with sprawl/ for the most part.  It is the leadership's mindset regarding sprawl regardless of consolidation.  Either you care about the core and infill or you don't give a crap.  Most of the areas in the City on the outskirts of the metro area within Duval Co.  that have not been developed seem to be mostly undevelopable.  We either move back in or continue to build into the surrounding counties. 

[tufsu1]

It's not a surprise, you know the COJ is loving this bill. They probably think dirty thoughts when reading it!

maybe, but I don't think it is that simple...yes, COJ (and most local governments) will be happy to have less state oversight...and more flexibility on how they plan and permit things...but keep in mind that COJ also spent 2+ years developing one of the most forward-thinking mobility plans in the entire state.

[peestandingup]

Well I can tell you that there are cities in America with far far more visible homeless vagrants all over the place and each one is still thriving to an extent Jacksonville simply cannot fathom: San Francisco, New York, Washington D.C., and Atlanta are all major homeless hotspots.  Also, I don't feel sorry for or pity for homeless beggers.  They suck and are worthless human beings.  If you have lived near hoards of them and have had to encounter them everyday or if you have ever worked many times at shelters/centers then you will realize that while some have problems that should be treated by society, many are just lazy SOBs with major attitude.

Agreed. Homeless arent as big of an issure for people not going downtown here as some think. Honestly, there arent that many homeless people roaming around in downtown Jax. yeah, you'll see some, but its really not that bad at all. Certainly not bad enough to keep people away. I've seen just as many in Orange Park.

I think a lot of people here would be amazed at the homeless beggers in other cities. And you're right, it doesn't keep people away in any other thriving downtown. Its just the way it is.

Also, people need to understand that a lot of "homeless" are just hustlers looking for handouts. I remember in DC just straight up having to ignore them because they'll get you everytime you walk down the street in your own damn neighborhood & try every sad story in the book, all BS (or almost all). Usually the same stuff like "trying to get money for the train to go see my kid" type shit. You'd give them more than enough money for the train, come back in 3 hours & their ass would still be hustling.

So I got really good at spotting the hustlers & the real homeless. And just FYI, there were many more hustlers than true homeless. Not to say these people weren't probably poor, but still. Def could have gotten jobs just like the rest of us.

Anyways, homeless isn't the problem & you cant blame them for why Jax sucks.

[mtraininjax]

Anyways, homeless isn't the problem & you cant blame them for why Jax sucks.

Jax does not suck, it just has had 8 years of decentralized growth management. Delaney, at least with the BJP, did re-invest back into downtown with the new Library, Ballpark and Arena. Met Park would have been nice, but we can all agree that over the last 8 years, little if anything has been done to make downtown prosperous, while the suburbs have boomed.

I credit this board for opening my eyes to these as real issues. I don't always agree with the liberals, but I appreciate their point of view. Jax does not suck. If you think it does, it might be time for you to leave.

[peestandingup]

Anyways, homeless isn't the problem & you cant blame them for why Jax sucks.

Jax does not suck, it just has had 8 years of decentralized growth management. Delaney, at least with the BJP, did re-invest back into downtown with the new Library, Ballpark and Arena. Met Park would have been nice, but we can all agree that over the last 8 years, little if anything has been done to make downtown prosperous, while the suburbs have boomed.

I credit this board for opening my eyes to these as real issues. I don't always agree with the liberals, but I appreciate their point of view. Jax does not suck. If you think it does, it might be time for you to leave.

Take it easy. I didn't mean all of Jax sucks, but we're talking about downtown Jax. And yes, it currently sucks & most people here would I'm sure agree with that statement.

Maybe its time for you to lighten up??

[mtraininjax]

Take it easy. I didn't mean all of Jax sucks, but we're talking about downtown Jax. And yes, it currently sucks & most people here would I'm sure agree with that statement.

Maybe its time for you to lighten up??

Maybe, but I take great offense to people saying my town SUCKS. I think it rocks and perhaps you should clarify your comments that downtown is challenged, rather than SUCKS. There are some great things about downtown, even in its challenged state. I love Dos Gatos and the entertainment areas that have popped up. I love Art Walk, I love the downtown library, I love the river, the list goes on and on and on.

Sucks is a poor word to use.

[ChriswUfGator]

Art walk is the one time a month when downtown actually has enough people in it to look like a downtown.

Glimpse of what could be.

[jcjohnpaint]

Anyways, homeless isn't the problem & you cant blame them for why Jax sucks.

Jax does not suck, it just has had 8 years of decentralized growth management. Delaney, at least with the BJP, did re-invest back into downtown with the new Library, Ballpark and Arena. Met Park would have been nice, but we can all agree that over the last 8 years, little if anything has been done to make downtown prosperous, while the suburbs have boomed.

I credit this board for opening my eyes to these as real issues. I don't always agree with the liberals, but I appreciate their point of view. Jax does not suck. If you think it does, it might be time for you to leave.

I totally agree.  I love it here.  It will take the right person and right group, but I have strong hope.  People (at lease some) must just keep fighting for what is right.